España No Ha Muerto: If Franco brought Spain into the Second World War

It's a mix of local tradition and the fact that quality can vary greatly from one chorizo to another. No two chorizos are the same, and generally most have too much paprika. Although at least it doesn't give the feeling that you are chewing on a leather belt, which is what ham gives.
If you have thick cuts and they are cold, you do get that.

You have to slice jamón as thin as you can make it, so it is almost transparent - and it needs to be served at between room and body temperature, so the fats can deliver their aroma
Same for presunto and prosciutto, or coppa di Parma.
Cutting properly cured jamón wrong on purpose should be forbidden by law.
 
If you have thick cuts and they are cold, you do get that.

You have to slice jamón as thin as you can make it, so it is almost transparent - and it needs to be served at between room and body temperature, so the fats can deliver their aroma
Same for presunto and prosciutto, or coppa di Parma.
Cutting properly cured jamón wrong on purpose should be forbidden by law.
I agree because in the delicatessen they cut it any way, and the same goes for other sausages.
 
In general: fat is a good carrier of flavours.

In particular: there's several types of chorizo, with different levels of fat.
Mexican chorizo is radically different from Spanish. It is far fattier and may be made with beef. It needs to be cooked.
Spanish chorizo is almost exclusively made from pork. Some are made to be cooked, but the most popular varieties are cured meats and made to be eaten uncooked - Pamplona and Cantimpalo. Both are less fatty than the sausage varieties - Cantimpalo feels leaner than Pamplona.

Still, if you don't like paprika, it is best avoided anyway.
I am going on the assumption that I have been in the wrong place for my life in regards to my tasting of chorizo and I hold on to hope that I will taste a decent version of it sometime in the future lol
 
It's a mix of local tradition and the fact that quality can vary greatly from one chorizo to another. No two chorizos are the same, and generally most have too much paprika. Although at least it doesn't give the feeling that you are chewing on a leather belt, which is what ham gives.
What kind of ham have you been eating?
 

Pangur

Donor
Could support operations against Malta, maybe give the Italians a kick in the pants to engage the RN more aggressively, maybe even sail up to the Black sea to help clear Sevestopol
With Gib gone, why bother with Malta? Wreck the canal and its all over in the Med
 
Could support operations against Malta, maybe give the Italians a kick in the pants to engage the RN more aggressively, maybe even sail up to the Black sea to help clear Sevestopol
As said previously Gibriltar in axis hand is an enormous bonus for Italy in many many way:
- OTL between July and August 1941 10 of our submarines operating in the atlantic were recalled due to the worsening situation in the med theatre, here with Spain in the axis will not be necessary or in any case with the straits under control there is the possibility to send them back in the atlantic, at least some of them.
- basically the convoy route available to support Malta had been cut on half, so Regia Marina don't need to divide her effort in two and can concentrate in dealing with the convoy coming from Egypt.
- In any case the route between Italy and Libya is more safe meaning that more supply will reach Libya than OTL
 
Why bother?
FWIW they did consider sending Hipper from Brest to the Mediterranean in 1941 instead of returning to Germany. That's according to M.J. Whitley on Page 114 of "German Cruisers of World War Two", although Whitley wrote . . .
How he proposed to get a heavy cruiser through the Straits of Gibraltar is not recorded, except that he considered it not impossible on a dark night.
 
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FWIW Cadiz and Ferrol would have made much better forward bases for Kriegsmarine surface warships than Brest. They're a lot further from the British air and naval bases in SW England so they're harder to bomb and blockade. They probably didn't have the facilities necessary to repair them but once Gibraltar falls they can be refitted in Italian naval yards. Plus it works the other way around too because RM surface warships could be sent to operate in the Atlantic.

Cadiz is closer to the South Atlantic & Indian Oceans than the Biscay ports which might allow the German & Italian submarines operating in those areas to spend a greater percentage of their time on station.
 
With how it is written I can see Churchill being in favour of a 2nd peninsula campaign to try and get the entirety of Spain to rise up… How realistically the people of Spain would do that is anyone’s guess.
Churchill going on about the soft underbelly of Europe.
FWIW and IIRC . . .

In the 1992 TV series "Churchill" (written & presented by Martin Gilbert) there's a section where someone recounts an occasion when Churchill suggested to Alanbrooke that the Second Front be via "Our Oldest Ally" Portugal instead of Normandy and gave the First Peninsular Campaign as his justification. Alanbrooke had his staff write a report that was umpteen pages long which explained why it was a terrible idea. Furthermore, when Alanbrooke presented it to the Prime Minister he told him how much effort went into writing the report and to stop wasting his & his staff's time with crackpot ideas like this one.

Therefore, if I have remembered correctly, it's a dead cert that Churchill will be in favour of a Second Peninsular Campaign to try and get the entirety of Spain to rise up.
 
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Could support operations against Malta, maybe give the Italians a kick in the pants to engage the RN more aggressively, maybe even sail up to the Black Sea to help clear Sevastopol.
The sentence isn't very clear. Is it the KM or the "arse kicked" RM that sails up the Black Sea to help clear Sevastopol? Whichever, it is they should have plenty of fuel because they'll be operating from Romanian ports and they could also neutralise the Soviet Black Sea Fleet which would enable them to supply the armies in the Caucasus by sea.

However, that assumes that Turkey is invaded, joins the Axis or is bullied into allowing Axis warships to pass from the Aegean into the Black Sea. FWIW I started a "Turkey Joins the Axis" thread years ago.
 
Churchill "Where is the navy?" :biggrin:

Seriously though I'd have thought the senior service would as a minimum be shelling Spanish positions at night. Plus the garrison in the Canaries can't spend all its manpower on PoW guards.
Seems unlikely at this point but I wonder if the Brits will pull a more orderly Dunkirk and attempt to get their garrison out by sea? They seem to still control the harbour from what I understand, but then again I imagine that Spanish bombardment has been targeting the docks to prevent such a thing. Still always fun to see some examples of fascist incompetence.
I imagine the Royal Navy could spare some forces to singe Franco's beard. Plenty of places that would be vulnerable to a quick bombardment it wouldn't cause much damage but anything to divert attention and resources from the Gibraltar campaign. Also SOE would probably be in the country being annoying.
Unfortunately, for Gibraltar's garrison there's also the Spanish coast artillery on both sides of the Strait, which would be giving the RN relief/evacuation force a hard time. Instead of "The Guns of Navarone" it's "The Guns of Algeciras and Ceuta". Said force would also be running the gauntlet of the EdA, Luftwaffe & RA anti-shipping aircraft that would have been based in SW Spain in anticipation of said relief/evacuation attempt. Finally, the Italian battlefleet might make an appearance. The only positive thing I can say is that Gibraltar's civilian population had been evacuated by the middle of 1941 so they're safe.

It's likely that there were no RN forces to spare to singe Franco's beard. A powerful Home Fleet was needed in the unlikely event that Tirpitz attempted to break out, a watch had to be kept on The Twins & Prinz Eugen at Brest and as the attack on Gibraltar begins in July 1941 the Mediterranean Fleet may still have been recovering from the damage it sustained during the Battle of Crete.

If Churchill demanded that the RN bombard the naval base at Ferrol in NW Spain and I was Dudley Pound I'd point out to him that the eight Vickers 15in/45 guns installed there between 1926 & 1936 (and supported by (IIRC) sixteen modern Vickers 6in guns) would fire back. IIRC the coast artillery protecting the north coast of Spain was strong enough to drive off attacks by cruisers & destroyers.

I think there's a good chance that Prince of Wales & Repulse are kept in home waters rather ITTL than being sent to Singapore as IOTL.
 
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Part of Post 397.
If Churchill demanded that the RN bombard the naval base at Ferrol in NW Spain and I was Dudley Pound I'd point out to him that the eight Vickers 15in/45 guns installed there between 1926 & 1936 (and supported by (IIRC) sixteen modern Vickers 6in guns) would fire back. IIRC the coast artillery protecting the north coast of Spain was strong enough to drive off attacks by cruisers & destroyers.
IOTL some of the 15in guns defending Ferrol were moved to locations in SW Spain to cover Cadiz and the western approach to the Strait of Gibraltar. However, ITTL it's likely that some of the six guns protecting Cartagena & four guns protecting Port Mahon on Menorca would have been moved instead. IOTL the Spanish also used Vickers 12in guns salvaged from the Spanish Navy's dreadnoughts as coast defence guns.

IOTL installation of the first two 15in guns in SW Spain was completed in October 1941. ITTL I think it's very likely that the Germans & Italians would have given the Spanish as much technical assistance as possible to help them get as many 12 & 15in guns installed & operational as possible in SW Spain by the summer of 1941.

Another Part of Post 397.
Unfortunately, for Gibraltar's garrison there's also the Spanish coast artillery on both sides of the Strait, which would be giving the RN relief/evacuation force a hard time. Instead of "The Guns of Navarone" it's "The Guns of Algeciras and Ceuta".
And Part of Post 22.
Out of 10,000 men under Mason-Macfarlane, some 1,000 had become casualties by September 6th, but morale remained high. Mason-MacFarlane organized impromptu stage shows for the troops, with the aid of Lieutenant Anthony Quayle of the Second Artillery, an actor in civilian life. They ranged from apolitical slapstick comedy routines to numbers lampooning their enemies, including a skit wherein a nervous Franco fretted that Hitler was ‘stepping out on him’ with Mussolini.
Anthony Quayle was in "The Guns of Navarone".
 
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The last paragraph of Post 37.
At dawn on the 24th of September, the Swastika and the red-gold Spanish banner were raised over the lighthouse. There had still been no official surrender from Mason-MacFarlane and his men hunkered under the rock, but for the first time in two centuries, Gibraltar was in Spanish hands.
My guess is that Mason-MacFarlane and his men would have held out until the end of January 1942, which is because the attack began in July 1941 and this paragraph from "Grand Strategy - Volume II" which is part of the British official history of World War II.
The Chiefs of Staff considered in October and November the requirements of the fortress for sustaining a long siege and approved the estimate of the Governor (Lieutenant-General Sir Clive Liddell) that supplies for six months should be held. Discussions took place with him in London in January; it was clearly understood that in the event of a land attack the use of the naval base would have to be given up. The Governor also pointed out the inadequacy of Gibraltar as a base for contraband control.
 
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As said previously Gibraltar in axis hand is an enormous bonus for Italy in many many way:
- OTL between July and August 1941 10 of our submarines operating in the Atlantic were recalled due to the worsening situation in the med theatre, here with Spain in the Axis will not be necessary or in any case with the straits under control there is the possibility to send them back in the Atlantic, at least some of them.
- Basically the convoy route available to support Malta had been cut on half, so Regia Marina don't need to divide her effort in two and can concentrate in dealing with the convoy coming from Egypt.
- In any case the route between Italy and Libya is more safe meaning that more supply will reach Libya than OTL.
FWIW & IIRC about 30 U-boats (out of the 90 that were operational at the time) were initially sent to the Mediterranean and a third were sunk or had to turn back after being damaged in the attempt. Therefore (if I have remembered correctly) about 30 get through instead of about 20 get through, all other things being equal and Hitler orders Raeder to send a third of his operational U-boats to the Med. If all other things weren't equal and Hitler doesn't send any U-boats to the Mediterranean does that mean a 50% increase in merchant shipping losses until the end of 1941?

If more supplies do get through to Libya does that mean that Operation Crusader failed? If it did the Axis would have remained in control of Cyrenaica (less Tobruk) and does that allow Rommel to invade Egypt in January 1942 instead of June 1942? If it did he'd be starting from Solum instead of Gazala.
 
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