Es Geloybte Aretz Continuation Thread
- Thread starter carlton_bach
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Can I ask what is the geopolitics of the UK? Like at what point did the UK recognise pax-britannia collapsed? Like they gave german assurance if Frances invades they will join Germany side but not a proper alliance though. France has flirted with the USA which is a nightmare scenario, both italy and spain now seem tied to them. So UK has France who is doing a naval arms race with the royal navy. Growing US power who while didn't in the end align with France, now has a awkward relations with UK. Russia should still have ambitions for middle East and India. Also rise of Japan now puts the Pacific in even more threat unless Japan and UK remains allies. Which I think could be still possible?
Royal navy can't have its dominace surely they must be spread thin?
Royal navy can't have its dominace surely they must be spread thin?
Is it too much of a spoiler to ask what Russia loses in the second war? And how the state changes or is changed afterwards? Like, what does ITTL Russia look like today?
Declinism is very much a thing in Britain after about 1950, but it is a relative decline, not an absolute one. However, the crippling sense of loss comes about not so much in the naval sphere as with the army. There are many countries witzh powerful navies, but none that can rival Britain's. Not the United States, largely due to its internal politics, not Germany, France, or Russia, tied up in continental arms races, not Japan or China, not Chile or Argentina. the biggest powers are regional rivals, capable at worst of excluding the Royal Navy from their waters. That is worry enough, but the British maintain an operations fleet that can deploy to challenge them in concert with their local forces if needed. Yes, a war with France and the United States would have stretched this to breaking point, but it was also always very unlikely. So as late as the 1970s, the Royal Navy is the largest in the world, the Fleet Air Arm the only force operating from multiple nuclear-powered carriers. Meanwhile, the Army is increasingly floundering trying to contain colonial insurgencies and popular unrest. So when Britain leaves one colony after another, usually under a fig leaf of gradual independence, the Navy is undefeated, succumbing slowly to budget cuts as the British economy is increasingly unable to maintain this outsize defense establishment and the Dominions refuse to bear a larger share of the cost. By ITTL 2020, Britain and the Dominions still have the largest navy in the world, but not by anywhere near the margin that obtained midcentury.
I am so submerged in work - my next book is way behind schedule - I've been badly out of this TL. So I really don't know. I assume there will be significant territorial losses along most borders, but the rump of Russia will stand.
That's completely okay! Do what you need to do for your amazing work. We'll be here waiting, as long as it takes.
Pity for them they can't see how OTL turned out for Royal Navy, TTL's is massive in comparison. When does India gain independence/become a dominion? Is it united or split?
@carlton_bach : what was Britain (and also Germany's) final colonial possession? (Of significance, I assume they'll be keeping the bits and pieces like the treaty ports)
Answering this question requires defining "colonial possession" in the first place!
There is that. Also, I'm not sure because I just don't know enough about the internal politics of the colonies to extrapolate what would be plausible. I assume that all colonial powers will work with the idea that more urban, literate and industrial societies are sooner decolonised while they expect to hold on to more rural, less literate places for longer. I expect India, Indonesia, Malaya, French Indochina, Egypt and similar places to be independent earlier (Egypt is never formally a colony anyway, but really it's red on the map) while New Guinea, most of Central Africa, and the Pacific Islands are looking at a harder and longer struggle. Beyond that, I am not knowledgeable enough to make that call.
And of course, independence is not the same for everyone. Canada, New Zealand or India are functionally separate countries whose association with Britain depends on shared interests (in this case, maintaining a global hegemony and trade bloc). Nigeria, Sierra Leone or Jamaica are not accorded that much consideration. They will face much greater interference especially in economic matters. It's much the same in other colonial empires, though of course not all of them have very developed places.
Egypt is tricky to play out because a) the Ottoman Empire doesn't get destroyed by the Great War, and Britain therefore has no obvious occasion to dissolve Egypt's nominal allegiance to it, and b) a Britain that remains "East of Suez" really needs control of the Canal. OTOH, tensions will remain, and build, so long as the British retain a role there.
How long does the Khedivate stick around in this world? Hard to say.