Es Geloybte Aretz - a Germanwank

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expect it to be useful directly?
something like in ww1 will happen, evolution, and experiments with shapes.
the first step is a modified pickelhaube, and when that turns out to be not optimal, then they will modify.
and remember this is actually the very first steel helmet (it precedes the adrian by almost a decade), so it is a lot of trial and error.
 
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Do you know that you just prevent the development of most modern military helmet with your invention of the Sturmhaube, because most of them are based on the Stahlhelm.
BTW Sturmhaube is the German name of the burgonet and the balaclava (also known as ski mask).
 
Not necessarily, I think a lot of the Stahlhelm's influence stems from the fact that it was actually an extremely well designed helmet; overall, I would expect helmet design to continually trend in the direction of the stahlhelm as helmet technology develops, by way of individual features changing. Obviously won't look the same, but it will look similar.
 
I guess it is where they fly you over the sea and open the door.

The "Dombrovski March" ? Pray can it be heard OTL ? And should it not spell Dembowski, he asked his voice trembling with memories of Metilde Viscontini.
 
Sorry, I don't know the reference. Can you enlighten me?

I guess it is where they fly you over the sea and open the door.

Werner Lamberz, a popular and allegedly reformist member of the politburo, died in a helicopter cradh during a visit to Libya. He was considered a potential crown prince to Honecker, so the speculation never ceased.

Personally, I think it's the JFK effect. In retrospect, all kinds of hopes can be projected into him, but in the end he would not have made a big difference. And the helicopter most likely just malfunctioned. But iof you know your government won't tell you the truth anyway, you might as well make your own...

The "Dombrovski March" ? Pray can it be heard OTL ? And should it not spell Dembowski, he asked his voice trembling with memories of Metilde Viscontini.

I must admit I have no idea. I was going by the English Wikipedia because i only know the song by its German title.

It will, naturally, become the national anthem of the Kingdom of Poland.
 
I must admit I have no idea. I was going by the English Wikipedia because i only know the song by its German title.

It will, naturally, become the national anthem of the Kingdom of Poland.

I glanced into German wikipedia and saw that Mazurek Dąbrowskiego (this is a correct Polish title) is known there as "der Dombrowski-Marsch". I think that it can be slightly confusing as mazurka (mazurek in Polish) and march (marsz in Polish) are different melodies with different metrums.

I hope you all forgive me this bit of nitpicking, I'm just a humble Pole and you are talking about Polish national anthem.
And of course this song must be an anthem in this timeline, its OTL competitor "Rota" ("the Oath") was written only in 1908 an in diametrically different circumstances.
 
Well the name march might perhaps come from the line "marsz, marsz, Dąbrowski …" in the refrain; I am not enough of a musician to know whether a march could be transposed into a Mazurka. For the great man himself, Jan Henryk Dąbrowski, he has different spellings for his name in the west, I confused him with Jan Dembowski (?) who served with and under him in the Polish Legion in Italy and whose estranged wife inspired Henri Beyle to write On Love.
 
25 December 1907, Stammlager Münster II

“Who would do that to their own?” Doctor Schubert’s hands, now clean again, still trembled from shock as he tried to light his pipe. Oberstabsarzt Siebeck, the camp’s medical officer, shrugged in resignation.

“It happens.” he said with the dull finality of a man who had seen it too many times. “You mustn’t forget who we’re dealing with here. Russian soldiers without the supervision of their officers – it’s like a zoo in here. Tonight was especially bad, but things like this aren’t unknown.”

Doctor Schubert recalled the knock on the door, early on Christmas morning, the messenger from the camp requesting his attendance to deal with a medical emergency. He had not thought too much of it on the way, but the memory of the hospital barracks would haunt him for a long time. He had tended to the victims of industrial accidents, but he had never before seen human bodies so mauled. In the end, he doubted his presence had changed anything. Most would die. Some would probably wish they had. Controlling the tremor in his fingers well enough to place the pipe stem between his lips, Schubert sucked greedily at the aromatic smoke.

“But surely this cannot be permitted. The guards must intervene.” He suggested. The oberstabsarzt shook his head sadly.

“Doctor Schubert, do you realise how many men our camp holds? There are over twenty thousand Russians here, not counting the work details outside.” He sucked on his own pipe, pausing before he continued his explanation. “We have one hundred and thirty guards. Some days we are glad that we can post sentries on all the gates.”

Schubert blinked. 130 guards for 20,000 prisoners? “I … had not been aware.” He conceded. “It seems like an extraordinary risk.”

“It’s not as bad as you would think.” Siebeck pointed out. “The POWs don’t have anywhere to run to, so they stay put. There’s a lot you can do with work details, too. Behave well, we’ll post you to a farm. Be a problem, you go to the coal pits. But there is no way we can manage the internal affairs of the camp with a force that small.”

“So you condone such – justice?”

“Yes.” Siebeck poured himself a glass of schnaps from the stoneware bottle he kept in his bottom drawer and offered it to his colleague, who gladly accepted. Smooth and sharp, the herbal tang of a prewar digestive spirit did much to calm frayed nerves. It was a rare treat these days. “We have to let the prisoners police themselves. It works, as long as you keep the nationalities apart. Most of the time it does.”

“But yesterday things went bad?” It was not a statement.

“Very bad.” Siebeck pointed to the central building on the map behind his desk. “The commander set up a Christmas tree in front of the Kommandantur. Not a big deal, but he wanted to, I dunno, spread some cheer. He had beer brought in, for the guards and the trustees. And other prisoners, too, if they wanted it and there was some left.”

“They got drunk?” Schubert was surprised, given the quality of wartime beer. The other man shook his head with a grim laugh.

“Drunk? I have yet to see a Russian who can get drunk on beer. No, it was just a few men who accepted. The barracks commanders spread the word that the prisoners were not to join the celebrations. See, the Russians have a different Christmas. All about their using another calendar and things, and their elders are very keen they don’t fraternise.”

The pipe almost fell from the doctor’s grip. “That’s what this was about? Celebrating Christmas? My God, they crushed that one man’s spine! What on earth…”

“Apparently it’s a common punishment in their village courts, or something.” Siebeck’s face took on a mask of clinical detachment, like a traveller reporting from darkest Africa. “The barracks elders are all Russian, peasants mostly, don’t speak a word of German. They have their head filled with all that Integralist wool. But they are patriotic, and they undersatand discipline,. I mean, you can’t condemn them for loving their country, can you? You’d expect our boys not to let down the side over there, after all.”

Schubert preferred not to think about conditions in Russian POW camps. He had seen enough of draughty barracks, double- and triple-shared bunks, pitifully inadequate ovens and ragged uniforms during his short stay here. Admittedly, the POWs had been on their best behaviour: respectful, obedient, diligent. There had been problems communicating – the Balts and Poles who spoke German had been sifted out for the Legions long ago – but nobody was being a problem. But he could never stop wondering which of these men had been part of the slaughter of last night. This had been no spontaneous outrbvreak of erager. They had systematically sought out their victims, marked men by their choice of joining a Christmas party of all things. Some had been beaten to a pulp, others had had their arms or legs broken, crushed under stones or twisted through window grilles. Someone had coordinated and ordered this! He wondered every time he saw a prisoner in the telltale green jackets that identified the bogatyr brigades of the Patriotic Union.

“I suppose so.” He listlessly agreed.

“At least they’re no trouble this way. More schnaps. Doctor? To Christmas.”
 
God only knows what the actual Christmas special will look like...

Ouch! The general black tone gets blacker.

Well, we are in the middle of a war killing millions of people....

POW camps can be effectively self-policing, but it requires the more extreme ideological elements to do it. People who can sustain the motivation even without a chain of command. IN WWII, some camps in the USA developed a strictly Nazi structure where ideologically suspect elements were purged. And that was with enough guards and resources. Now you have an idea what kind of people will be coming home to Russia after the war, and what will save the Czarist government.
 

Tyr Anazasi

Banned
Well, we are in the middle of a war killing millions of people....

POW camps can be effectively self-policing, but it requires the more extreme ideological elements to do it. People who can sustain the motivation even without a chain of command. IN WWII, some camps in the USA developed a strictly Nazi structure where ideologically suspect elements were purged. And that was with enough guards and resources. Now you have an idea what kind of people will be coming home to Russia after the war, and what will save the Czarist government.

A good overview about that can be found in The Incident (Anwalt des Feindes) with Walter Matthau.
 
I have read the whole timeline for the past two months (yeah, busy life) and it has been fantastic. I cannot praise it enough simply because it's too awesome (and I lack the depth of knowledge). So I'll do what can and help with discussion.

I was wondering if Germany would be dislodging Ukraine from the Russian Empire, as it currently stands I don't think that they might be able, as the war advances it maybe be. We have the word of god that the future is grim for Russia.

The cost for Ukraine militarily speaking might be as high as the war has been up to the moment, unless Russia does indeed deteriorate faster into a failed state than what the debt and industrial capacity of the German Empire can be overloaded. Let's not forget the debt catching up, we can speak of two types of debt here, one, economical of course, and the other, social.

The one that complicates things more IMHO is the social cost, the whole of Germany can feel the war and the solutions to placate some of the advocates of ending it here (failing to see the big picture where it needs to continue to solve the financial hole in which the conflict put Germany) are opposed to some of the others. Sometimes diametrically.

I was wondering about this hypothetical state and thought a couple of things.

First, as Poland moved east, Ukraine would also have to. Maybe even more. Austria-Hungary has to claim land for themselves as well as the German Empire, this is the beginning of the XX century, this is the war that started changing all, not the change in itself. Land legitimizes conflicts that might have nothing to do with it, something has to give.

Breaking down the borders, Lviv stays in A-H as Poland, which had many advantages that Ukraine hasn't, wasn't conceived to be given land from the powers that created it. It's probable that it will regain some of it with the eventual collapse of A-H but that isn't considered (and Ukraine may also). Therefore we need more land to legitimize this state, even when the lack of it's existence can counter this necessity.

To the north we'll have either Poland, Russia, Belarus or Lithuania. The borders between Lithuania and Poland will be a mess to sort out and Germany has to maintain it's hegemony over eastern Europe so the Germans could can apply the idea of giving as much land to Lithuania as possible to reduce the size of both nations. The empire has to find the balance between what's more economically stable and profitable and the relative weakness of the states amongst each other and, more importantly, in relation to the empire. That's why I think that Tartu isn't viable even as a temporary state, neither a small Lithuania and that Ukraine will have a longer frontier with Poland.

Poland is also a special caseas she has to be regarded with something in exchange for her participation, that being what is White Russia. Even when it seems to contradict my former statement of small states. In that same line of thought, if Lithuania's western border isn't all Polish she could also extend further east. Dealing with ethnic issues would be a mess but Ivan is on the losing side and most of the lands close to the war will suffer severe depopulation.

Concerning the eastern border we'll have more interesting discussion.

OTL Great War's Ukraine seems like a possibility but I would call your attention to alternative projects.

Ukrania Irredenta seem too much by far, except that were are not considering the lack of the western third of that claim. Now, it still sounds ridiculous to include some of the areas that have a minimum of Ukranian ethnicity into them, nonetheless, that doesn't mean that they couldn't be used as political leverages to fill the gap between the United Baltic Duchy/Estonia/Latvia and Ukraine proper. More importantly, reorganizing the idea of Ukraine lets us consider including the Kouban area, which might be more important because it negates an appropriate access to the Black Sea for Russia. Conceding ares of Ukraine proper for this benefit seems like a more than fair gamble (even considering all the unrest that.

Plus, we'll have a strong Ukraine, something unusual as far as I can see in the forums.

White Russia on the other hand, as I see it, is not a likely option for a couple of reasons (correct me if I'm wrong):

First and foremost the population in relation to Russia. What does Germany win for the military and diplomatic cost of creating Belarus? What does it have in favor of fighting for Ukraine?

I have to say that I'm really not deeply versed in early XX century eastern European economy so I cannot say what comparative advantages would Belarus have but I find it very hard to come close to the more industrialised parts of Ukraine and the economic power of having such a large control over one of the world's largest grain supply. Even more so in the period of time we're talking about with the larger proportion of grain-based food on the diet.

And that's not even counting the pieces the ethnicity will lose to some of the newly formed states.
 
Fox-Fire, I wonder if you could sketch a map of what sorts of borders and client states you think the Germans will want to create,

Bear in mind--Russia is clearly in a bad way already, and should have sued for peace quite some time ago. But nevertheless while we can predict both the people and the regime are facing some hard times ahead for the foreseeable future, nevertheless the author has also let us know in editorial asides, that Russia will someday be bouncing back, or at least struggling to limp back, and will be in a position less than half a century hence to give Poland a terrible pounding, as bad as or worse than what the OTL back-and-forth between Hitler and Stalin did to the place.:eek::( And also that the Germans will be ending that war with nukes.:eek:

So, Russia is savaged and wounded, but not mortally. The regime that will someday trash Poland is clearly foretold to be at least nominally Tsarist and Romanov; the Integralist movement will not collapse or fail but will rebuild Russia on quasi-fascist lines. And the seeds of this grim success have been sown and we've seen them sprout; the House of Romanov will be saved and upheld by mass patriotism, one capable of being mobilized toward modernization and development of Russian potentials.

Whether those potentials include Ukraine or not is not so clear. On one hand, getting it under the hegemony of the German alliance is clearly a tempting prospect, especially for Austria-Hungary. OTOH, A-H is the weaker of the two German empires and even the Second Reich in the north is feeling severe strain by this point. The Hapsburg armies are doing much better in this war than in the OTL Great War, but that is faint praise as they did appallingly poorly against the OTL Russians. They are advancing and not retreating, making conquests and not disintegrating, all that is to the good, and in the debate about whether the northern Germans will want to dismantle or uphold the Hapsburg regime, I favor the latter--perhaps for reasons that are too sentimental, but I also think the German Reich would rather keep the southern Empire in one piece to keep things simple--also German chauvinism will play a role, since the ruling dynasty is clearly German and as long as the Empire holds together, the Austrians hold the balance of power--barely, and tentatively, and weakly, but that is what the German government will try to reinforce and uphold. Perhaps postwar it will turn out they can't do it, but if the Hapsburg empire disintegrates I think it will be despite rather than because of the wishes and attempts of most Germans. And given victory in this war, I rather suspect that between the interests of the north, the desires of the Austrians, and the possibility that small ethnicities will see supporting the central power as their best prospect for getting protection and freedom to pursue their own interests, I think maybe they can.

With or without Ukraine? Even if the Austro-Hungarians (and via them, the Germans) can win big parts of it in battle and get a lot of the rest at the peace table, it isn't so clear to me they can hold it--liberating it from Moscow's control will only waken Ukrainian nationalism. Unlike the Poles they won't feel they owe the Germans much except ill will.

Anyway despite the clear advantage both Empires hold over the collapsing Tsarist forces, Germany and still more AH are getting exhausted. It isn't clear to me how much more they can conquer and even if they were to take both Kiev and Moscow, Russia has still more vast spaces behind them--I suspect the German offensives won't get quite that far. I suppose they will invest all of Belarus if they haven't already, and portion it between AH, Poland, and perhaps some Baltic state that might have some plausible ethnic connection there; Belarus won't legally exist.

In general Germany itself won't be able to aggrandize the Reich's own legal territories by much (AH can though). In Berlin, the gains of the war will be seen as gaining indirect control over the many new east European polities they carve out of Russia--as well as over AH. It will be in German interest to establish the new states as strong and as ethnically cohesive as possible, and rely on each states' dread of Russia to keep the military alliance of these buffer states with Germany solid; economic relations with Germany will not only be favored by this political consideration but also will link them to the strongest market and most industrialized state in the region certainly--arguably the most developed nation in the world bar none, anyway despite the heavy debt of this war one of the top 3 in the world. Most of these territories, except Poland, had gotten along reasonably well under the Tsars but it must be universally known there by now that the character of the Russian regime is changing in such a fashion that anyone who doesn't fit the Integralist definition of "Russian" had best get out and stay out of "The Russias."

Because the Germans are getting war-weary, "the Russias" might still include most of Ukraine when the peace treaty is signed.
 

The Sandman

Banned
I suspect that Russia will lose Ukraine at least up to and a little past the Dnieper, along with the Crimea, because the Ottomans will jump in before the war ends and there's only so many troops that can be supplied in the Caucasus. Which, incidentally, I think the Russians are going to lose most of, between the inevitable Ottoman invasion and the equally inevitable revolts.

On the other hand, if the Germans and allies can force their way into the Sea of Azov, they might start dropping troops at strategic points in order to stake a claim to the Donbass once we reach the period between total Russian collapse and Russian acknowledgement of said collapse.

On the subject of Polish borders, I could see the Austrians handing over Krakow as a "wedding present" when Stephen I marries (assuming, of course, he's currently unattached); it's a relatively small bit of territory that's full of irredentist sentiment and would produce massive amounts of goodwill via its return to Polish control.
 
Hm, ever optimistic. :) I didn't get the impression that such a great advance was still possible. If the Austrian-Hungarians are as strained as the Germans, I am pretty sure that the Ukraine will remain with Russia. Maybe better luck in round two. ;)
 
28 December 1907, east of Dvinsk

Russians weren’t much for building houses, Felbwebel Sierich thought, but they damn sure knew how to build ovens. With winters like this, that was a good thing. Even better that they had found this one while it was still in one piece, a village where the retreating Russians had neglected to burn down every last building and their allies had not taken the opportunity to drive out the local populace in much the same way. Sometimes, Sierich felt as though he had travelled back in time into a world of bloodfeuds and lawlessness. No war was kind to civilians – he himself rarely enough felt disposed to nicely consider the feelings of the muzhiks whose homes he was quartered in – but the way the Lithuanian Legion went about pursuing vengeance was Montague-and-Capulet stuff. The East Prussian front had been tame by comparison.

With a grunt of pain and satisfaction, the feldwebel pulled off his boots. Schirrmacher was cramming in more firewood, big, resiny logs of fast-burning pine that crackled, hissed and spat. The whitewashed clay oven heated so efficiently that the men were already sweating, taking off coats and tunics. For many, it was the first time in days. They had sent the farmer and his boy out to the stables while they made themselves comfortable, but Sierich had insisted on paying for the hospitality. Paper it might be, but it was money. Come spring, it might make a difference. He knew what being a poor farmer was like.

“Vodka!” The shout went up around the rickerty table by the window as Nadia came in. Sierich wasn’t sure if that was her name, but it was what everyone called her. Right now, the old farmer’s daughter was the only Russian allowed inside the house, but if you were going to do business with the locals, you had to pick someone to do business with, and you’d be nuts to let a Russian man near you while getting a drink. Too many stories were already making the rounds.

Nadia came in slowly, carrying a heavy stoneware bottle. Immediately, Signewski and Hübecker stepped up to help, weighing the content and shouting with glee. Sierich fumbled for his wallet. He did not understand Russian – nobody in his platoon did – but sometimes, you could get along without it. A two-mark bill changed hands, quickly disappearing into the girl’s apron pocket. She did not meet his eyes. Impulsively, the feldwebel dug out a silver 50-pfennig piece and held it out to her. Uncertain, she reached out to take it and he smiled encouragingly. The briefest of smiles lit up her face, but she stepped back from him almost immediately. What must she think of him?

Glasses and metal cups clinked as the men distributed the unexpected bounty. The girl busied herself over the pot of gruel that she had put on the stove, wary, but efficiently and competently. Sierich returned to his seat – appropriating one of the two stools was a perquisite of reank – and stretched out his aching legs. Hübecker started playing his harmonica, and a ragged choris of voices rose in celebration.

“Morgen marschieren wir,
Zu dem Bauern ins Feldquartier,
Eine Tasse Tee,
Zucker und Kaffee,
Eine Tasse Tee,
Zucker und Kaffee,
Und ein Gläschen Wein,
Und ein Gläschen Wein!”

The scream caught him unprepared. Sierich jumped to his feet, his heart beating in his ears. Reflexes honed in long months at the front took over as he tried to understand what was happening. Nadia was struggling, pointlessly, against Hübecker and Greiner who were – trying to stop her running away, he presumed. Signewski stood mute, looking like an idiot. Surely he had to have started this. Sierich opened his mouth, but before he could so much as begin chewing him out, the door flew open and a figure swaddled in layers of thick winter clothing barrelled into the back of Grenadier Greiner, sending him tumbling. The girl tore loose and fell immediately, shouting out in anger. The stranger – it had to be her brother, the damn kid – was holding something, swinging it. The axe connected heavily with Hübecker’s head, the crunch audible over the din. Sierich’s hand went to his sidearm, not the only or even the quickest. The boy swivelled, facing him, eyes burning with hatred. He was defending his sister’s honour, damn him, and they were not going to get out of this without killing him. With a shout in Russian, he advanced on the feldwebel. He was brave, you had to give him that.

The shot from Sieboth’s rifle was deafening at close quarters, and the bullet went straight through the boy’s chest and the wooden wall into the gathering dusk. He collapsed, gasping and coughing. Sierich stared incredulously. Holy Shit!

“Stand down!” he shouted, his ears still ringing. Several men had drawn, others were scrabbling for their rifles. Across the farmyard, a door slammed open and the farmer came running, a pitchfork in his right. Another shot took him in the stomach.

“I said stand down, dammit!” Sierich was furious. He stepped out, straining to see what was going on. The cold air hit him in the face with unexpected force. Silence spread over the platoon, the men staring dumbfounded at the scene. The boy was lying on his back now, his weakening breath rattling. His father was rolled up on the ground, a keening moan escaping his lips. There was no trace of the girl. The feldwebel strained to hear if anything was happening, but no sounds betrayed anything other that wind in the trees. Well, fuck!

“Sieboth!” he ordered, breaking the spell. “Put the poor man out of his misery. Nothing we can do for him.”

The soldier drew breath to protest, but blanched at the look his sergeant gave him.

“Greiner, Müller Zwo, fetch something we can use to carry poor Hübecker back to regimental command post. And put on your coats, everybody!”

They would burn the house, he decided. The incident would be recorded as a franc-tireur attack. There was no point going through the paperwork of charging Signewski for being an idiot. He’d have to take care of that himself. Shrugging into his coat, forcing his swollen feet into the boots, Feldwebel Sierich wondered momentarily what would become of the girl. She had taken the opportunity to run out into the forest. Most likely, she’d freeze to death before the morning, And it was all so fucking unnecessary!

“Hebing, Klawohn, prepare to fire the buildings! Everybody else, gear up! We’re marching back to HQ.”
 
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