Es Geloybte Aretz - a Germanwank

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It never ceases to amaze me how much you can improve on the events of our TL's 20th century while also waving in our faces how awful everything in this TL will be for a generation or three.

Personally I suspect that for PODs after the unification of Germany, it's rare to have a 20th century in which something profoundly shitty doesn't happen.
 
What's the long term consequences of this collectivization?

Modern Germany.

Kipling IOTL was deeply critical of what he regarded as the collective impulse in German culture, a notable lack of Anglo-Saxon individualism which he cast in Darwinian mate competition terms. It was something many contemporaries saw, and which IMO rightly diagnosed: Germans are prone to creating organisations. Left to their own devices, they make labour unions, mutual insurance funds, political parties, sports clubs and leagues, cooperative banks, farmer-owned dairy and processing co-ops, professional associations, lobby groups, neighbourhood watches and child care circles. Government was always happy to integrate these into the way it ran things. This is what made the Kaiserreich and Weimar tick, and it is what made the FRG successful (I am half convinced its absence explains why life in the GDR was so shitty). It will also play a central role in this TL.
 
Though I think these days, the past tense is more appropriate. There is a reason why Vereinsmeierei became popular as a word.

I'm not entirely sure there. A lot of the organisations of the past rendered themselves obsolete by succeeding, but many are still treasured (in Hamburg, membership in a Baugenossenschaft is the kind of asset you bequeath your children). And there seems to be a Bürgerinitiative or Freie Wählergruppe for every problem in the world right now.
 
I'm not entirely sure there. A lot of the organisations of the past rendered themselves obsolete by succeeding, but many are still treasured (in Hamburg, membership in a Baugenossenschaft is the kind of asset you bequeath your children). And there seems to be a Bürgerinitiative or Freie Wählergruppe for every problem in the world right now.
Hm, I suppose it depends on what. The classical mass organizations, like parties and trade unions have hemorrhaged members for decades now, of course, and a lot of classical free time activities clubs, things like dancing or cards or wandering and so on, only seem to have elderly members anymore. But I suppose sports (i.e., mostly football) clubs are doing alright, as does smaller scale political/social activism. Then again, that single issue lobby groups like Bürgerinitiativen are replacing mass movements seems more like an American tradition taken over than something specifically German to me.
 
I am half convinced its absence explains why life in the GDR was so shitty).

With all due respect to your personal opinion, but life in the GDR wasn't "shitty".
Or at least not because of the lack of these institutions!

Those institutions existed one way or another also in the GDR.

The GDR had completly different starting conditions economicaly speaking, e.g. no mashal fund help, but was still able to achieve the highest social and living standards of all eastern block states. (Comparably to Bulgaria and Romania today)

The main reason for its collaps was the controlling and spying nature of its government and its ministry for statesecurity (Stasi)
 
Darwinian mate competition terms
That explains German womenhood. I would appreciate a reference to amuse myself further.

Left to their own devices, Germans make labour unions, mutual insurance funds, political parties, sports clubs and leagues, cooperative banks..
IOTL, the US Army calls it cohesion. It may be the Genius of State Building that the Germans as Aryan people possess. Kipling should know this, after his long residence in India.

There is nothing sinister in running a mutual insurance scheme on a non-profit basis: it alleviates the effects of elemental risks on the individual. Tacitus knew this. Read him.
 
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With all due respect to your personal opinion, but life in the GDR wasn't "shitty".
Or at least not because of the lack of these institutions!

Those institutions existed one way or another also in the GDR.

The GDR had completly different starting conditions economicaly speaking, e.g. no mashal fund help, but was still able to achieve the highest social and living standards of all eastern block states. (Comparably to Bulgaria and Romania today)

The main reason for its collaps was the controlling and spying nature of its government and its ministry for statesecurity (Stasi)
That and the fact that the GDPR had racked up so much foreign debt that, at the end, it was borrowing money to meet the interest payments. That is not (to put it mildly) a sustainable economic strategy.
 
That and the fact that the GDPR had racked up so much foreign debt that, at the end, it was borrowing money to meet the interest payments. That is not (to put it mildly) a sustainable economic strategy.
Likewise with all due respect, I think Istariol illustrates a point I try to make by ancient sources: namely that Germans are prone to stay true to a common cause until five minutes past twelve, whereas other Germanic nations or peoples in general switch to self-interest earlier.
 
Likewise with all due respect, I think Istariol illustrates a point I try to make by ancient sources: namely that Germans are prone to stay true to a common cause until five minutes past twelve, whereas other Germanic nations or peoples in general switch to self-interest earlier.
With qualifications, I agree. The First World War did however reveal the existence of both a left wing "peace party" and a "right wing" or "elite" group who also wanted a change of direction who were not blindly committed to the common cause. The Second produced both the Communist underground and the July (and earlier plotters). But the bulk of the German population tended to remain loyal until the writing was on the wall I agree.
 
That and the fact that the GDPR had racked up so much foreign debt that, at the end, it was borrowing money to meet the interest payments. That is not (to put it mildly) a sustainable economic strategy.

And your Sources are???

The GDR was the most export oriented economy of the Eastern Block States.
It's balance of payments was mostly positive till 1986.

What broke the GDRs economic back was the rising oil-prices and the economic collaps of the other Eastern Block States.
Import prices for crude oil from the USSR increased 11-fold between 1974 and 1986, and natural gas prices seven-fold.
Soviet supply shortages had a heavy burden increased the external constraint on imports on a forreign currency basis with relatively high interest rates.
The western credits increased the GDR debt and interest charges in foreign currency from 1975 onwards.
However, the GDR had met its payment obligations to the West until the very last minute and in the end suffered no credit refusal from the West Banks.

Sources:
Deutsche Bundesbank, „Die Zahlungsbilanz der ehemaligen DDR 1975 bis 1989“, August 1999.
Heske, Gerhard, „Bruttoinlandsprodukt, Verbrauch und Erwerbstätigkeit in Ostdeutschland 1970-2000, Köln 2005 (Zentr. f. Historische Sozialforschung, Supplement No. 17)
Luft, Christa, „Die Lust am Eigentum“, Zürich 1996
Wenzel, Siegfried, „Zur Rolle der Ökonomie im finalen Entwicklungsabschnitt der DDR“, in: Pankower Vorträge, „1989 – 1990. Die DDR zwischen Wende und Anschluss“, Berlin 2000, Heft 20
Wenzel, Siegfried, „Zur Rolle äußerer Faktoren für die ökonomische Entwicklung der DDR“, in: Pankower Vorträge, „Die DDR-Wirtschaft in den 80er Jahren“, Berlin 2005, Heft 70
 
The Gorbachev memoir. If the East German leadership exaggerated the extent of their financial predicament in an attempt to ensure the USSR's financial support then it backfired on them spectacularly
 
Has there been much discussion of rationalising the internal borders of the German Empire?

I'm sure there's been "discussion". This is the same government in which the emperor told his closest ministers (in so many words) that he'd prefer to give Alsace-Lorraine to France but it was impractical.

Pretty certain rationalization won't happen in the lifetime of these people - Germany seems to be settling into a vaguely-American political culture with regard to Bismarck's constitution.
 
I mean, even in Weimar the only rationalization that happened was the unification of Thuringia. Without the Prussian exclaves inside, because of course without them. You still had mini-mini-states like Schaumburg-Lippe, or states divided into several enclaves scattered in Prussian territory like Brunswick and Anhalt, and you still had Prussia clinging on to all provinces. And that still in Weimar, after WW1 and transformation into a republic and everything. Yeah, I can't see any reforms in that regard happening here, unfortunately.
 
Has there been much discussion of rationalising the internal borders of the German Empire?
Berlin was becoming a frighteningly savage place, and it was not the only one, apparently. He could get reports of this level of detail only from within Prussia, but Cologne and Duisburg, Frankfurt, Altona and Breslau all showed similar developments and reading the papers alone suggested that things were little better in places like Hamburg, Dresden, Munich or Bremen.

I believe W3 runs this timeline through his Hausmacht of having combined legislative/executive power as King in Prussia. His imperial powers are under greater scrutiny. Messing with the empire's internal borders would be as unwise as if the EU would seek to detach the Channel Islands from Britain.
 
I believe W3 runs this timeline through his Hausmacht of having combined legislative/executive power as King in Prussia. His imperial powers are under greater scrutiny. Messing with the empire's internal borders would be as unwise as if the EU would seek to detach the Channel Islands from Britain.

Indeed that was the case OTL, regardless of Kaiser; it is not so much an ATL thing as a condition of the Prussian built Empire. You'd have to have PODs in the first half of the 19th century--different 1848 at the latest--to have it otherwise. Maybe '48 was not the absolute latests but trying to change it after that would become exponentially more ASB with time. Whereas possibly even '48 is too late.

It was pretty much true of Weimar as well; Germany was basically Prussia wearing some accessories.

It was only changed by first of all Hitler atomizing everything into personal dictatorship followed by the postwar abolition of Prussia.
 
Indeed that was the case OTL, regardless of Kaiser; it is not so much an ATL thing as a condition of the Prussian built Empire. You'd have to have PODs in the first half of the 19th century--different 1848 at the latest--to have it otherwise. Maybe '48 was not the absolute latests but trying to change it after that would become exponentially more ASB with time. Whereas possibly even '48 is too late.

It was pretty much true of Weimar as well; Germany was basically Prussia wearing some accessories.

It was only changed by first of all Hitler atomizing everything into personal dictatorship followed by the postwar abolition of Prussia.

I know Nazi Germany was de facto ruled through new Gaue divisions after 1934, but were the Lander ever officially abolished?
 
I know Nazi Germany was de facto ruled through new Gaue divisions after 1934, but were the Lander ever officially abolished?
The Gaue were administrative divisions of the party, not the state. Only the Reichsgaue were both. The states continued to exist as administrative divisions of the state - both states and Prussian provinces got centrally appointed stadholders, who could rule them dictatorially - in accordance with the Führerprinzip.
 
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