Erich von Manstein changes the world (draft)

Thande

Donor
This is the kind of role Manstein was much more likely to be involved in thats why I had to have Deitrich shoot Hitler

The Turtledove story was set in 1943, with Hitler visiting Manstein on the front, and he had Manstein simply become so frustrated at Hitler's "not one step back" interference preventing him from making a fighting retreat and then encircling the Soviet armies that on the spur of the moment he shoots Hitler. Given how you describe the man's character, though, that seems rather unlikely.
 
The Turtledove story was set in 1943, with Hitler visiting Manstein on the front, and he had Manstein simply become so frustrated at Hitler's "not one step back" interference preventing him from making a fighting retreat and then encircling the Soviet armies that on the spur of the moment he shoots Hitler. Given how you describe the man's character, though, that seems rather unlikely.

there was one point in the war that i could see Manstein loosing his cool and giving Hitler a 9mm in the skull. In March 1944 when the 1st Panzer Army under Hube was surrounded (Kaments pocket) because of Hitler interfering with Manstein's conduct of the retreat, Manstein completely freaked out. This was right before Hitler fired him and Kleist. Hitler released the 1st panzer division and the Liebstandarte to Manstein to free the surrounded troops. Manstein and Hube up to that point had been having a serious personal feud and Hube had gone over Manstein's head several times to Hitler directly on operational decisions. Manstein had threatened his resignation over this problem several times according to Wohler. Hitler once the Kaments crises started had a rare moment of sanity and backed Manstein over Hube and gave him the troops and the orders to free the surrounded men.

I could see him loosing his mind if Hitler backed Hube and ordered some kind of Stalingrad style holding action. At the conference were Hitler released the troops and gave Manstein a relatively free hand to restore the front; if Hitler sided with Hube and didn't order the 1st Panzer army to break out to the West I could see Manstein either shooting or arresting Hitler. This was the last great battle of his career. He led a brilliant action freeing the surrounded troops and inflicting major casualties on the Soviet Ukrainian fronts. Hitler poured praise on him. Manstein then followed up suggesting that Hitler accept a General to have supreme command of the eastern front (he didn't say it should be himself although it was implied).... Hitler saw the potential threat to his power and gave him and Kleist their swords to the Knights Cross and sent them home out of the war
 

kenmac

Banned
there was one point in the war that i could see Manstein loosing his cool and giving Hitler a 9mm in the skull. In March 1944 when the 1st Panzer Army under Hube was surrounded (Kaments pocket) because of Hitler interfering with Manstein's conduct of the retreat, Manstein completely freaked out. This was right before Hitler fired him and Kleist. Hitler released the 1st panzer division and the Liebstandarte to Manstein to free the surrounded troops. Manstein and Hube up to that point had been having a serious personal feud and Hube had gone over Manstein's head several times to Hitler directly on operational decisions. Manstein had threatened his resignation over this problem several times according to Wohler. Hitler once the Kaments crises started had a rare moment of sanity and backed Manstein over Hube and gave him the troops and the orders to free the surrounded men.

I could see him loosing his mind if Hitler backed Hube and ordered some kind of Stalingrad style holding action. At the conference were Hitler released the troops and gave Manstein a relatively free hand to restore the front; if Hitler sided with Hube and didn't order the 1st Panzer army to break out to the West I could see Manstein either shooting or arresting Hitler. This was the last great battle of his career. He led a brilliant action freeing the surrounded troops and inflicting major casualties on the Soviet Ukrainian fronts. Hitler poured praise on him. Manstein then followed up suggesting that Hitler accept a General to have supreme command of the eastern front (he didn't say it should be himself although it was implied).... Hitler saw the potential threat to his power and gave him and Kleist their swords to the Knights Cross and sent them home out of the war

I know you were eager to get on with the Manstein in Africa timeline but I would like to see an end to this one minus the Third Reich shootout.
All the Nazi elite still alive.
I would just love to see how the war turned out with an Axis v USSR battle.
 
I know you were eager to get on with the Manstein in Africa timeline but I would like to see an end to this one minus the Third Reich shootout.
All the Nazi elite still alive.
I would just love to see how the war turned out with an Axis v USSR battle.

At some point a ways in the future (since I have several open projects) this will be cracked into a monster timeline 1936-1966 this afterall was just a draft so i chopped the ending off a lot to bring it to a close
 
Great Ending

Excellent ending! I really enjoyed this draft... I would be interested to see where the story (post-war) leads to. Did Manstein and company stop the Final Solution after the assasination of the Nazi leadership? Just curious...

:)
 
Excellent ending! I really enjoyed this draft... I would be interested to see where the story (post-war) leads to. Did Manstein and company stop the Final Solution after the assasination of the Nazi leadership? Just curious...

:)

His reaction to and elimination of the concentration camps will be described in the full TL... based on my current rate of completion... the full tl 36-66 will debut just after new years I think (Manstein in Africa may or may not have a 5th book, once I wrap that up, I am going to start posting the full Manstein changes the world TL)
 

world

Banned
His reaction to and elimination of the concentration camps will be described in the full TL... based on my current rate of completion... the full tl 36-66 will debut just after new years I think (Manstein in Africa may or may not have a 5th book, once I wrap that up, I am going to start posting the full Manstein changes the world TL)

Don’t try and make the world nice.
Just stick to the military.
If you go down the other route u will lose everything,
History must never be how you want it to be only how it is with a new path.
 
Treaty of Paris

I´m late here. Great timeline!

Just one question?
Would it be possible (in the Treaty of Paris) to add the Kirkuk region to Turkey?

I mean Manstein probably already knows that the Romanian oil fields won´t be large enough to supply Germany with enough oil in the future. Not if you want highly mobile armies. And at that time he doesn´t yet know how the war with the USSR will end.
And unless that war would give Germany control of Baku and a secure supply line to Germany (highly unlikely), any future war could see a return of a naval blockade....
And not enough oil in Germany.

So it would make sense to try and give a generally German friendly country (allies in WW 1) possession of a large oil field. Especially if one already (politically and militarily ) controls the Balkans. It would be a much more secure supply route than relying on British Empire and US good will.

I would suspect Turkey would be quite happy with a joint Turkish-German oil company. Plus regaining some old Ottoman Empire territory. And some of that new wealth might be spent buying German weapons and paying German instructors since Turkey doesn´t like Russia too.
Or buying German export goods. :)

(Not to mention that with control of the Balkans and a friendly Ukraine it would also be much easier to "pressure" Turkey if they - in future - tried to shut down delivery of oil to Germany. I don´t want to insult Turkey here. It´s just cold-blooded realism. Turkey simply is much closer to Germany than Persia or Kuwait....)

The British Empire still has the Persian oil fields. And they already discovered oil in Kuwait. So they´re not that dependant on Northern Iraqi oil fields and might be willing to give them up. Maybe with the stipulation that enough oil will be sold to them for warfare in Asia?
 
Greetings fans, detractors and silent readers.

I know I promised the long version of this tl for january, however with the broken hand, other open projects and the baby coming; I regret to say this shall be postponed... fear not though... I have been piloting some of the ideas I have for the long version of this tl within manstein in africa (such as axis aircraft carriers, and massive integration);

best wishes

BW
 
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