Equip Your WWII Army

[von Adler]

Sweden did make a belt-fed BAR for infantry use post-ww2.

http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/kg/svenska_kg.htm

The Poles used a belt-fed BAR (with hiked RoF) as observer MG in a lot of their planes - the lack of interchangable barrel is not the same problem up in the cold air where you fire short bursts.

 

[tallwingedgoat]

Sweden did make a belt-fed BAR for infantry use post-ww2.

http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/kg/svenska_kg.htm

The Poles used a belt-fed BAR (with hiked RoF) as observer MG in a lot of their planes - the lack of interchangable barrel is not the same problem up in the cold air where you fire short bursts.

Both Sweden and Poland went the American route and adopted the BAR and Browning M1917 water cooled HMG. I don't see any reason for a belt fed BAR in the aircraft role, the aircraft variant of the M1919 was proven and could be built on M1917 tooling.

FN also came up with a BAR with quick change barrel post war. This eventually led to the current NATO standard MAG 58.

Sweden probably should have just licensed the MG34 in the mid-Thirties. A 6.5mm version should be doable, though the MG34 did have reliability issues.

 

[AdA]

weapons

9x19mm VIS Radom Pistol
9x19mm Beretta M38A SMG (Issued as PDW for 2ln duties)
7,92x57mm G43 SAuto Rifle
7,92x57mm G98 Sniper Rifle
7,92x57mm Vz30 LMG (used as SAW)
7,92x57mm MG42 GPMG
12,7mm M2 HMG
50mm Type 89 Granade Launcher
88mm PzK AT/RPG
82mm M41 Mortar
120mm M38 Mortar
57mm ZIS 2 Light ATG
76,2mm 17pdr Medium ATGun

The Danuvia M39 was a fantastic weapon for 2ln troops, but it's powerfull 9mm Mauser ammo was not avaible in service pistols. I am a believer in using the same ammo for rifles and LMG, and on using the same ammo for pistols and SMG. I'll post heavier stuff latter

 

[AdA]

artillery

US artillery in WW2 was good, and perfectly integrated. I would take is as in OTL, from the 105mm Howitzer to the 203mm Field Gun. (except for the ATG, wich I have listed above)

 

[NothingNow]

For ground forces, Standardize on 7.62x54R, 12.7x99mm and .45ACP. Standard rifle will be the SVT-40, SMG will be the M1A1, LMG shall be the Madsen gun, and the standard Squad MG shall be the Browning M2.

As for Artillery and Anti-tank gear, standard sizes will be as follows: Howitzers:105mm American and 155mm and Mortars: 81mm. Anti-aircraft weapons will be the Oerlikon, Bofors 40mm L/60 and the 90mm Gun M2.
As for the actual weapons, the 155mm Gun M1E1 and M12 GMC shall be the standard 155mm pieces, and the M4A3(105), M7 and M2A1 will suffice for 105mm. Anti-tank weaponry will be the QF-17pdr and Raketenpanzerbüchse 54.

Armor will be limited to the M4A3 family (some to be fitted with 17pdr ASAP, or given up-armored M10 Turrets,) M10 (to be upgraded to 17pdr SP Achilles ASAP) and Crusader, with the Crusader being limited to SPAA roles, alongside the M16 MGMC. the M8 Greyhound, M20 Scout Car, and T17E1 Staghound shall be in use as Scouting vehicles.

Logistics/Prime Movers:
M3 Half Track family, LVT-4, M4 High-Speed Tractor, Dodge WC series 1/2 and 3/4tons, and GMC CCKW.

Aviation Assets:
Tempest, Corsair, A-26 Invader, Vickers Wellington, and for Logistics the C-75, C-47 and C-54.

Seacraft: Provided by someone else most likely. Probably Flower or Castle-class Corvettes, Gleaves, Fletcher, or Allen M. Sumner class Destroyers, and River class frigates, along with some minesweepers. Maybe a Gato or Balao class if we get lucky. But LST 2 and 3s as troop transports, various MARCOM ships for everything, and a Vulcan-class and a Pair of Dixie-class for patching things up. An Escort Carrier or CVL would be nice, and a Cruiser like a New Orleans, or Brooklyn class would be useful for shore bombardment.

 

[Tank Cdr]

I can see how you might license MG34 pre-war, but how do you propose to get the Germans to sell you later war equipment while you buy late war American weapons?

That's why I dislike these threads. There's nothing realistic about it. It's not about pre-war planning, it's a post war surplus party. At this rate we might as well ask for both the V-2 rocket and the A-bomb.

It is just something for fun and in a round about way it is a discussion of WWII arms and equipment. German engineering was superior but difficult to maintain in the field. Soviet equipment was simple and rugged. The USA had excellent artillery and the semi-automatic M1 Garand was an excellent infantry rifle. Most of the Japanese equipment was outdated, but the "Long Lance" torpedo was probably the best torpedo of the war. The British built excellent aircraft and the armored deck of their aircraft carriers was superior to the wooden decks used by the other nations. Bottom line, just something fun to be able to equip your own WWII army with the best arms and equipment available. It is interesting to see everyone's choices and generates good conversation.

 

[wietze]

Even though I hate to say this as US Army tanker, I would probably go with the T34/85. The American tanks were just not that great in WWII. I know a lot of people would go with the German Tigers but mechanical reliability was an issue.

I am just not very familiar with the artillery to intelligently comment on it.

Not sure why you like the T34 that much, it may have been a good weapon, but it wasn't designed with the crew in mind. With regards to crew comfort and such they were a disaster.

But do do we have to use complete existing designs? As others commented the tigers with good logistics & good supply of materials needed could have been much more reliable..

As for tank I would probably go with the Panther G as 'heavy' tank Or the IS-2, and the Panzer IV as the general tank workhorse(light/medium at 25 metric tons). Would have preferred the Chaffee as medium/light tank(19T) but that was designed in 44-45.

Infantry:
AG m/42 Ljungman 6,5x55 semi-auto rifle
For infantry weapons i would pick the FN HP 9mm as pdw
MP40 or patchett (later known as sterling) SMG's,
a (preferably) beltfed 6,5x55 bren as lmg
MG42 as GPMG
Browning M2 0.50 HMG
AT: Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck (twice the penetration as the bazooka at that time)

Navy:
Audacious class aircraft carrier
Colossus light fleet carrier
Submarine: Dutch K XIV fitted with Snorkel (sub has 10,000Nm range) and long lance torpedo

Artillery:

75mm pack howitzer (us)
105mm bofors 4140 field howitzer (15km range and platform that allows it to be rotated easily in a new direction)
130mm M-46 field gun(ussr) (because of its 30km range)
155mm M114 Howitzer
203mm M115 Howitzer

A Hummel like vehicle with the M114 howitzer as self propelled artillery (because it uses the panzer IV chassis)
and wespe/priest kind of vehicle for 105mm

Anti tank: the British 17 pounder
105mm leichtgeschütz 42 (recoilless gun)

edit:
Katusha sp rocketlauncher (all 3 sizes, 82/132/300mm)
Land matress towed rocketlauncher

 

[BlairWitch749]

General service rifle: Stg 44
General sub machine gun: PPSH
General purpose machine gun: MG-42
Marksman's rifle: Moison Nagant with 4x12 scope

Armored personel carrier: M3 Half tracks
Light/Scout tank: Panzer III series N
Medium/General Purpose tank: Panther series G
Heavy/independant battalion tank: Pershing
Tank destroyer: Jagdpanther

Towed artillery: American 105 and 155mm piece (better range and rate of fire than anything else out there)
Self propelled artillery: M-12 for 155 work and Wespe for 105 work

Fighter interceptor: ME-109K (with american aviation gas)
Escort fighter: P-51D
Multi-role fighter: FW-190D (with american aviation gas)
Close support bomber: JU-87G
Medium bomber: B-26 and JU-88
Strategic Bomber: B-29

Battleships: American Iowa class
Carriers: British Illustrious class
Cruisers: German Admiral Hipper class (with Deisels)
Destoryers: Japanese Fubuki class
Subs: German elctro-boat with Japanese torpedoes

 

[Simon]

Jan 1944... There go my A-34 Comets then...

Comets? Before Tank Cdr set a cut off date I was hoping to sneak the Centurion Mk. I in since they sent a couple troops of them to Germany at the tail end of the war but didn't get to see combat before hostilities ended.

 

[AdA]

Geography

For AFV a lot depends on what mission the army is going to have. Is it going to operate in Africa? will it be expected to concuct mobile operations on the plains of central europe or defensive operations on Norway? The German tanks from 42 on were primaraly designated for antitank operations in russia, were firepower and protection became essencial, and on road mobility was not critical. The M4 was designed to provide Infantry support and to drive from Normandy to Berlin on the road rather than to be ferried by train to hot spots in russia(etc).
So assuming a large country that will conduct mobile ops:
Medium tank: T34/85
Heavy tank: IS100 (with the D44 100mm tank killing gun)
Assault Artillery: Mixed ISU152 and ISU122 units.
Tank destroyer: SU100
Self Propelled Artillery: US as in OTL
Multirole APC: US M3 family
ARV: Puma

All soviet vehicles I assume has being built in "ideal army" factories with US style quality control.

 

[Mad Missouri]

Comets? Before Tank Cdr set a cut off date I was hoping to sneak the Centurion Mk. I in since they sent a couple troops of them to Germany at the tail end of the war but didn't get to see combat before hostilities ended.

What a shame, you could have had a tank with a overly cramped turret, horrible complex maintanence requirements and a 30 mile operational range. Read the stats on the Mk1 is wasn't even close to Centurian's mature form.

 

[dgharis]

Myself, I'll stick with German equipment circa 1944 for the most part. A few changes, in the interest of standardization, but nothing major.

Infantry Weapons:
Sniper Rifle: Mauser K98 w/Zeiss 4x Scope (7.92x59).
Service Rifle: Sturmgewehr 44 (7.92x33).
SMG: PPSH 41, rechambered to (7.92x33). The Russian weapon is far more reliable than the MP 40 and MP 38; the change is to simplify ammunition supply.
Service Pistol: Walther P38, rechambered to (7.92x33). The change is to simplify ammunition supply.
GPMG: MG 42 (7.92x59)

Light Mortar: Granatwerfer 36 (50mm).
Medium Mortar: Granatwerfer 34 (81mm). A copy of the French Brandt 81mm, with virtually identical performance.
Heavy mortar: Granatwerfer 42 (120mm). An improvement on the Soviet PM 38 mortar.
ATRL: Panzerfaust 44b. The last and best version.
Grenades/Mines: Standard German versions.
Flamethrower: Flammenwerfer 35, standard German version.

Field Artillery:
ATG: PAK 40 (75mm). Largest practical towed ATG; anything heavier is too cumbersome for field use.
Light AAG: Flak 30/Flakvierling 38 (20mm). The former is a single mount, the latter a quad mount.
Heavy AAG: Flak 37 (88mm). Anything larger will be for static defense and the province of the Luftwaffe and/or Kreigsmarine.
Light Howitzer: Gebirgesgeschutz 36 (75mm). A pack howitzer for service with mountain and airborne units.
Medium howitzer: leFH 18/40 (105mm). A hybrid weapon, using the carriage of the PAK 40 and the barrel of the leFH 18, it worked surprisingly well.
Heavy howitzer: sFH 18/40 (150mm). Another hybrid weapon, with the carriage of the sFH 18 and the barrel of the sFH 40. A decent performer, but not outstanding.
Rocket artillery: Nebelwerfer 42 (210mm).

Heavy Artillery: Only a few types here; the Luftwaffe is a better choice for delivering large ordnance.

Medium Divisional Gun: sk 18/40 (105mm). An army version of the naval Schiffskanone 18, AFAIK. Wiki has no info, so I need more research.
Heavy Corps Gun: sK 39 (150mm). Originally designed for the Turkish army, but appropriated for German use in 1939. Twice the range of the standard sK 18.
Heavy Army Gun: sK 38 (210mm).

Logistical Vehicles: (As opposed to AFVs).
Motorcycle: BMW R75.
Light Car: Volkswagen Kubelwagen Type 82 (2WD). Rear area staff cars can be civilian models.
Truck: Opel Blitz 3.6-36S (4WD model). Many different variants.

AFV:
Light Armored Car: Psw 222. (20mm gun).
Medium Armored Car: Psw 234/4 (75L48 gun).
APC: Sdkfz 250 halftrack. Again, many different variants.
Medium Tank: Pzkw V Ausf G (75L71 gun). Many different variants; a few are listed below.
Assault Gun/Tank Destroyer: Jgpz V (88L71 gun).
SPG: StuH V (150L36 howitzer). (Never done during the war, but a logical development).
Flakwagen: Flpz V (88L71 AA gun). (Again, never done during the war, but a logical development).

Notes: I have standardized things to simplify production and supply. All infantry weapons are 7.92mm (.31 cal); all AA is 20mm or 88mm, all artillery is 75mm, 105mm, 150mm, or 210mm; mortars are 50mm, 81mm, or 120mm. The army has one type of motorcycle, car, truck, APC, and tank.

No plethora of heavy or super-heavy artillery; the Luftwaffe can fill that role. No heavy tanks, either; I can build two Panthers for the price of one Tiger and they are more useful. The Germans seem not to have built heavy trucks, preferring halftracks like the Sdkfz 7 for heavy loads; I will use the Sdkfz 150 variants or civilian vehicles instead. Captured foreign vehicles, if numerous enough, can equip training or security formations; otherwise they'll be scrapped.

 

[basileus]

I was thinking about what the armies of World War II had for standard issue arms and equipment. This got me to wondering if I could pick and choose from all the various armies equipment, how would I equip my WWII army?

My infantry would have the M1 Garand as the standard issue rifle, the MG42 as the standard issue light machine gun and American logistics backing them up. My air force would have the P51 Mustang as the standard fighter, the B17 as the standard heavy bomber, the Ju88 as the standard medium bomber and the Sturmovik IL2 for CAS. My navy would have British carriers, American battleships, cruisers and destroyers, Japanese submarines and the "Long Lance" torpedo.

That is just some basics. So how would you equip your WWII Army?

Obviously American logistics, plus British doggedness, German tactical prowess, Italian flair... and Soviet "liquid courage".
Land:
German Heer high officers, professionals and NCOs, mostly Anglo-American commissioned officers. US and German paratroopers. Italian cavalry, to be machanized later (and Americanized, by God!). Soviet, Maghribian and Gurkha shocktroopers. Japanese expendable cannon fodder for extreme time-biding defense.
Mosin Nagant rifle, PPshK or Schmeisser as automatic weapon, MG 42 machine gun; US made mortars; German Stielhandgranate; mostly US artillery; German heavy artillery; Russian Katyusha rocket launchers;
Bren Carriers and plenty of US Jeeps; as for tanks, at first British Matilda and French Char B1bis, later a combination of T-34, Tigers and Sturmgeschutz III.
air:
Piper Cub for artillery observation; Spitfire models and later Messerschmitt 262 as main fighters; heavy-gun fitted Stukas as tank killer and later Typhoon rocket attack fighterbombers; Mosquito light bombers, Ju88 as multirole workhorse, B17 and Lancaster as heavy bombers, B29 only if nukes available AND necessary. Japanese Kamikaze riding V1s.
sea:
US admirals and higher officers, British and Italian crews on surface ships. British reinforced-bridge carriers, US battleships and escort carriers, Italian cruisers, US destroyers, British patrol craft and submarine-killer, German armed merchant raiders, Japanese large subs for recon/surprise long range air attacks and German (schnorkel-fitted) Type VII U-Boote as workhorses, later ElektroBoote Type XXI. Italian frogmen saboteurs; Japanese human torpedoes.

 

[KyleB]

Infantry weapons: M1 Garand, PPSh 41, MG 42, M2 Browning, Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck

Artillery: IG 18 75mm howitzer, German 105mm howitzer, American 155mm howitzer, American 240mm howitzer

AT guns: British 6pdr and 17pdr AT guns

Flak: German 88mm and 128mm pieces, Bofors 40mm, Polsten 20mm AA

Tanks: Sherman Firefly, Sherman 105

SP guns: Jagdpanther, Hetzer, Hummel, Brummbar, Stug IV

Light AFVs: M3 halftrack + variants, Universal Carrier, Jeep, American trucks,

(German light vehicles from WWII were very inferior to American ones.)

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

Well, I've always had a passionate love for automatic weapons so I suppose I'll be arming most of my infantry with BARs for rifles. I mean the original version, not the LMG type. Also giving the infantry Tommy Guns, Colt 1911s, M2 Brownings, M1919A6 Brownings, Bazookas, and Springfield M1903s for snipers.

As for tanks, I guess I'll go full Russian. T-34 of all kinds, especially T-34-85s, Su-100 tank hunters, that kind of stuff. Even add some Katyushas, rockets are always hilarious and fun.

As for planes, going back to American. P-51s, B-29s, etc, all that jazz. You know what I'm talking about.

 

[Gridley]

Query for those who selected British CVs... uh... why? Even if they come equipped with Hellcats, Corsairs, Avengers, or even (post 1944 cutoff) Skyraiders I'd still rather have Essex-class CVs; tougher, better range, better at UnRep, larger air group...

Ditto those who want Brit BBs - even with the 1944 cutoff you can still have Iowa-class BBs.

As for the OP, who is this speculative army of mine fighting, and where? Tank warfare on the plains of Europe calls for Panthers or T-34/85s, but those monsters would be more trouble than they were worth in New Guinea. Automatic rifles for infantry are great if you've got a solid logistics tail, but even US quartermaster units would have trouble keeping them fed on the Russian Front in the middle of winter. The Bazooka is frequently scorned as a true anti-tank weapon; true if you're fighting the Germans, rather less so if you're fighting the Japanese (or the Italians, Nationalist Chinese, etc.).

Can I mechanize all my infantry, or only some of them?

While some equipment is just plain better than other gear, a lot is situational. So what's the situation?

 

[modelcitizen]

Lets go with weapons in service no later than 1 Jan. 1944, that should eliminate a lot of the "wonder weapons".

argh, atch-scray the A-10 Warthog mega-fleet I was envisioning.

 

[Tank Cdr]

I notice a lot of people picking the Sturmgewehr 44 as their infantry rifle. I know that it was the first production assault rifle, but for the World War II era nothing is more reliable, accurate or hard hitting than the M1 Garand.

I picked the Soviet T34 series as my primary tank because as a tanker believe me crew comfort takes a back seat to mechanical reliability and ease of operation. The M1 was not designed for a lot of crew comfort either, but you learn to improvise and adjust.

 

[Gridley]

I notice a lot of people picking the Sturmgewehr 44 as their infantry rifle. I know that it was the first production assault rifle, but for the World War II era nothing is more reliable, accurate or hard hitting than the M1 Garand.

I agree that the Garand is the best general-issue rifle of the war, hands down. Can we tweak it to whatever caliber we want? Say, oh... .276Pederson?

 

[modelcitizen]

Lets go with weapons in service no later than 1 Jan. 1944, that should eliminate a lot of the "wonder weapons".

dang! I'd have a seventeen-day extension if I could, man...

why?

because on January 18, 1944 -- precisely 28 years before I was born-- the first of the Imperial Japanese Navy's I-400 Sentoku Class submarine aircraft carriers was launched.

that's right.

aircraft carrier, and, submarine.

hot dawg!!!!!

http://military.discovery.com/technology/vehicles/submarines/submarines-07.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400_class_submarine