No it doesn’t. That’s a satire of the United States, not a serious attempt at AH
C.S.A.: The Confederate States of America - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
This film handles this topic very well.
Entertainment in a Confederate Victory
- Thread starter GameBawesome
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Deleted member 90563
There'd be lots of films about the wars (there would have to more than one - all ending in defeat for the US - for the CSA to survive) against the Union.
Certainly Southern Gothic's critique of modernity would look differently without the post-Reconstruction malaise - though there would still be racial and class contours to explore as artfully as Faulkner or O'Connor did IOTL.
It's not like America thought of itself as a cohesive nation prior to the Civil War, so they will walk away with two distinct identities.I'd expect there'd be some revanchism on America's part but.... In some ways each would be better off - the USA would much more easily embrace a Bismarckian welfare state, for example, though there would be certainly border tensions and questions about which Confederate emigrants to accept. And it's not like Black Americans had it *great* until the 1960s or so. Having gotten so close with Reconstruction only to seen it be torn away by Jim Crow coups did it's own damage to the African American psyche.
You didn't mention sporting but:
- I expect national sport today would be a source of great pride and, if South Africa is anything to go by, political ostracization and, eventually, racial integration. I expect today that national sporting competition between the US and CS would be high draws and express a lot of sublimated national rivalry.
- Horse racing and, eventually, auto racing are definite.
- Boxing and wrestling too are likely to still be popular, especially if Confederate national identity leans into a sort of muscular Christianity as part of its narrative on how it won the Civil War.
- This is ugly but... dogfighting was not made illegal in the United States until the mid-20th century. Cockfighting is tolerated in many Mexican states and elsewhere in Latin America so.... Maybe that's still tolerated.
- If Oxbridge replaces the Ivy League for the Confederate elite, we likely see a change in what types of sports take hold in Southern colleges, once they become more culturally relevant. I can't say if it would cause rugby union to replace American football, but we might see a divergent national code.
- Baseball took off across America in part because of the Civil War. I don't see how a Confederate victory changes that and the Southern League is likely well-developed by the early 20th century, if on a smaller scale than the National/American Leagues. American pro sports expansions would look very differently... maybe a few leagues are bi-national or tri-national if Canada is still involved...
- Urbanization would still suggest the development of indoor sports and sports for women in the 20th century. Anyone's guess as what's happening by then given how contingent those sports are.
What makes you say that? How is the plantation economy *not* fundamentally capitalistic? Further, the plantation elite are way better off in this timeline - their largest asset doesn't vanish in the blink of an eye like it did with Reconstruction. Though yes... they'd struggle to modernize as other areas of the world star to produce base commodities more cheaply. But they have an increasing advantage relative to Latin America - proximity and speaking English.
Are we sure there will even be a California Hollywood? Jacksonville is *way* closer to the Northeast, just as sunny, and even further from Edison's patent trolls than California is, given it's an entirely different country. The labor costs are likely lower and well... it's been previously discussed that Jews are likely to be well tolerated compared to the OTL south. (No reason for a WASP/nativist backlash to Reconstruction, instead leaning towards an "any white immigrant is welcome if they'll assimilate enough, we're outnumbered as it is" sentiment.)
I think relations would normalize by the mid-20th century at the latest. How long did it take for relations with Canada to normalize? As soon as economic complexity warranted it....
It's not like America thought of itself as a cohesive nation prior to the Civil War, so they will walk away with two distinct identities.I'd expect there'd be some revanchism on America's part but.... In some ways each would be better off - the USA would much more easily embrace a Bismarckian welfare state, for example, though there would be certainly border tensions and questions about which Confederate emigrants to accept. And it's not like Black Americans had it *great* until the 1960s or so. Having gotten so close with Reconstruction only to seen it be torn away by Jim Crow coups did it's own damage to the African American psyche.
You didn't mention sporting but:
- I expect national sport today would be a source of great pride and, if South Africa is anything to go by, political ostracization and, eventually, racial integration. I expect today that national sporting competition between the US and CS would be high draws and express a lot of sublimated national rivalry.
- Horse racing and, eventually, auto racing are definite.
- Boxing and wrestling too are likely to still be popular, especially if Confederate national identity leans into a sort of muscular Christianity as part of its narrative on how it won the Civil War.
- This is ugly but... dogfighting was not made illegal in the United States until the mid-20th century. Cockfighting is tolerated in many Mexican states and elsewhere in Latin America so.... Maybe that's still tolerated.
- If Oxbridge replaces the Ivy League for the Confederate elite, we likely see a change in what types of sports take hold in Southern colleges, once they become more culturally relevant. I can't say if it would cause rugby union to replace American football, but we might see a divergent national code.
- Baseball took off across America in part because of the Civil War. I don't see how a Confederate victory changes that and the Southern League is likely well-developed by the early 20th century, if on a smaller scale than the National/American Leagues. American pro sports expansions would look very differently... maybe a few leagues are bi-national or tri-national if Canada is still involved...
- Urbanization would still suggest the development of indoor sports and sports for women in the 20th century. Anyone's guess as what's happening by then given how contingent those sports are.
Jes Lo
Banned
Their primary form of producing capital would be by exporting raw resources (cotton and shit) to factories in Europe and, probably eventually, to the US. It's not financially sound for a country that bases its wealth on exports to isolate itself from foreign investments, especially a country recovering from a costly war.
The US would probably be pissy for a while, but not for long. They'd end up getting business in some amount from Europe, at least from France, Britain, maybe Spain.
You'd just have two distinct musical cultures with less cross-contamination. I say less because you're going to have some mingling at least among some niche audiences in both countries. Maybe the UK would show interest in Confederate music instead of the US, exporting it to Europe to some success.
Eventually the idea of using free labor to manufacture an increasingly unprofitable crop wouldn't become economically viable. They'd need to adjust with the times, especially as cheaper and more varied resources and cheaper means to get them become prevalent. The blacks wouldn't be having it good especially at first, keeping them in chains is really expensive and impractical. Unless they'd want to have millions of malcontents skulking around and making trouble, some noblesse oblige would be necessary. It's also bad for business to create a humanitarian crisis that diplomatically isolates the CSA, stops exports and spooks investors and foreign buyers.
Actually a planation-based economic is the antithesis of capitalistic. You can see this in a couple of ways. First from the Marxist perspective, human society develops in stages from a Slave-based (think ancient Rome) to Feudalism, to Capitalism, to Socialism (he predicts), to Communism (which he does not really define). The American south was at best a feudal economy, not capitalistic. If one does not want to employ Marxist technique, one still needs to look at how wealth and status were defined. In the capitalist economy of the North the economically and politically powerful were those who accumulated wealth and invested it in productive industries. In Britain this defined the economically powerful, although the landed aristocracy still possessed a disproportionate degree of political power. By contrast, in the South both political and economic power was concentrated in the hands of those who invested in land and slaves. In fact, the politically powerful tended to be in debt to the financiers in the North (who were obtaining capital from industrialists). This was also a reason the CSA could not endure a long war. They could not finance it with debt. They could only finance it by printing currency (which works for awhile but pretty soon becomes self-defeating). As such there simply will not be the excess capital to finance speculative ventures such as movies.
For this reason, I would suggest you do not have Latin American Hollywood (despite some locations with ideal weather). Political/Economic power in most Latin American countries was concentrated with a landed elite meaning there was less excess capital looking for investment opportunities.
You are assuming that the political and economic elites of the south (i.e. the Planter class) will make decisions that benefit the broader society but harm themselves. I am deeply skeptical of this possibility. I would suggest the will continue doubling down and doubling down again on maintaining their "peculiar" (and increasingly inefficient) institution.
Jes Lo
Banned
If the politicians want to keep their jobs, they'd best use diplomacy and maintain economic stability and growth in order to compensate for war losses. Making enemies out of the US or anyone else is not going to help. It'd eventually become more costly than it's worth for the planters to keep a bunch of slaves around and have to worry about spending money on clothes, food, security and having to buy new ones (increasingly impossible as the slave trade ceases) in order to keep them. Also, they'd be trading with powerhouses like the British Empire who can always look to greener pastures if they suddenly grow a conscience and don't want to buy slave-made cotton. It'd take, at best, a few decades for them to at least become aware of this fact and take steps towards emancipation while not giving them any significant rights. Otherwise, it's bad business and the planters would be without any cash, which they won't stand for.
You could no more remove black influence than you could remove the influence of your brain from the rest of your body. The two go hand in hand. I think they just do what they did in OTL, downplay its impact on the genre.
A bit overselling it, don't you think? I'm not a huge music nerd, but if I had to take a wild guess, I'm guessing Bluegrass and Country doesn't have a whole lot of Black influence.
Country and bluegrass exists because of black influences. You should watch Ken Burns Country Music documentary for a brief foray into the history of the genre.
JWQ
Banned
on a personal note I like to watch silent films so I might be biased here however with a stronger confederacy I could imagine the nation inviting all silent film actors who couldn't make the transition to sound to come to the confederate states of America and make a name for yourself. America before ww1 had most of its entrainment films from other countries believe it or not. These silent films in a age of sound would operate in a limited number of theaters,but might somewhat revive Nickelodeons (movie theater) . I could imagine theaters would be more willing to sell double features in a time to silent films where the depression was hurting everyone. Or in exchange for buying one movie ticket you could see a silent short either before or after the silent movie
Perhaps in the confederacy nickel and dime store would have a showroom where viewers can Watch the film consuming cheap store snacks .During the depression theaters allowed Concessions to be sold and since then have been popular among audience.
In a area of less industrialization the csa I could see the Golden circle being turning from a unprofitable expansionist club with at best only mixed success turns into a profitable corporation.
Sports in the Confederate nation
fencing 🤺 would be added on the aristocracy School boards . Dueling was popular through out the antebellum years especially among ordinary folks.
swimming was popular in the sunny south and public pools will Sprout up rapidly in a alternative independent Confederate nation.
hunting,horseback riding where all popular during the antebellum years
Family dollar and dollar tree appear to be particularly popular among the more working class people and are popular in the currently in the south now
Perhaps in the confederacy nickel and dime store would have a showroom where viewers can Watch the film consuming cheap store snacks .During the depression theaters allowed Concessions to be sold and since then have been popular among audience.
In a area of less industrialization the csa I could see the Golden circle being turning from a unprofitable expansionist club with at best only mixed success turns into a profitable corporation.
Sports in the Confederate nation
fencing 🤺 would be added on the aristocracy School boards . Dueling was popular through out the antebellum years especially among ordinary folks.
swimming was popular in the sunny south and public pools will Sprout up rapidly in a alternative independent Confederate nation.
hunting,horseback riding where all popular during the antebellum years
Family dollar and dollar tree appear to be particularly popular among the more working class people and are popular in the currently in the south now
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Afro-confederate subculture would probably look quite different than OTL's afro-american culture for sure given the different post-emancipation history/lack of reconstruction or redemption. OTL had a narrative of emancipation followed by coming close to getting fully accepted buy then reaction/white backlash wins and holds on for generations before round two of pushing for equality. This world instead has a process of bumpy, gradual upwards progress as the narrative of afro-confederate history.
Slavery dies in 1880s or 1890s due to US/UK investor pressure but I wouldn't expect any equivelant of *civil rights until the 1970s, possibly 1980s in the CSA. My guess is more industrialized bits of dixie start moving towards liberalizing on race in the early-mid 20th century but given it'd be a native CS approach different than OTL's civil rights. My guess is we'd probably see some time and effort put into attempting to make seperate but equal at least sort of mean equal too. Emphasis on "attempts" since this is still the south.
OTOH there'd be less inherent nastiness/resentment on both sides given that you'd see gradual change over time as opposed to OTL's situation of instant emancipation/attempts to enforce civil rights followed by white backlash from the 1870s to late 1890s that undid most of reconstruction. Instead you'd have a situation where you'd get say emancipation in 1882, 20 to 30 years of some sort of indentured/"compensated" labor system woking for their former owners followed by decades of sharecropping/being in a more "normal" capitalist economic situation even if it's rigged against them/ Not an ideal situation for the ex-slaves POV, but at least it'd involve less violence than OTL's situation given it'd simply involve continuing existing systems(if modified ofc) as opposed to having to reestablish white authority.
Slavery dies in 1880s or 1890s due to US/UK investor pressure but I wouldn't expect any equivelant of *civil rights until the 1970s, possibly 1980s in the CSA. My guess is more industrialized bits of dixie start moving towards liberalizing on race in the early-mid 20th century but given it'd be a native CS approach different than OTL's civil rights. My guess is we'd probably see some time and effort put into attempting to make seperate but equal at least sort of mean equal too. Emphasis on "attempts" since this is still the south.
OTOH there'd be less inherent nastiness/resentment on both sides given that you'd see gradual change over time as opposed to OTL's situation of instant emancipation/attempts to enforce civil rights followed by white backlash from the 1870s to late 1890s that undid most of reconstruction. Instead you'd have a situation where you'd get say emancipation in 1882, 20 to 30 years of some sort of indentured/"compensated" labor system woking for their former owners followed by decades of sharecropping/being in a more "normal" capitalist economic situation even if it's rigged against them/ Not an ideal situation for the ex-slaves POV, but at least it'd involve less violence than OTL's situation given it'd simply involve continuing existing systems(if modified ofc) as opposed to having to reestablish white authority.
I doubt the CSA would limit immigration strictly to Northern European Protestants. In fact, I think @Paragon's point about relative tolerance of Jews would apply to Catholics as well. When it comes to policies regarding Catholics, you also have to consider the increased prominence of Louisiana in the CSA vs. the OTL USA.
I know I've brought this up on this site before, but IMO it's likely that an independent CSA has a larger Asian population than the OTL South. IOTL, some Southern plantation owners brought in Chinese laborers after abolition to replace former slaves, similar to what happened in much of the Caribbean. Laws blocking further Asian immigration, pushed primarily by Western legislators, nipped this in the bud. An independent CSA wouldn't have to deal with Western pressure on the issue, so when slavery eventually ends, they could very well end up bringing in workers from China, India, etc. The chances of this being a particularly large minority are slim, but they could have a notable impact on, say, cuisine. As far as I know, the South Asian minority in Jamaica has always been small, but goat curry has still become a quintessentially Jamaican dish.
I think you're overestimating the connection between a country's economic center and the origin of its most popular music. IOTL, many of the dominant traditions in American music have come from the South[1], which is hardly the backbone of the US economy. If anything, I could see Appalachian music's popularity exploding with the decline of the coal industry and the attendant exodus of Appalachians to other regions of the CSA, more so than during the peak of industry.
[1] or from Southerners who moved north, or their children/grandchildren
JWQ
Banned
Southern educational work and points of views
https://hindscc.instructure.com/courses/214021/pages/characteristics-of-southern-literature
French and British intervention in the American civil war would allow southern Toryism throughout the South to flourish. Jules Vern's and other allied European writers' popularity would increase in the South, such as the blockbuster Novell 20,000 leagues under the sea, treasury island, pride in prejudice.https://hindscc.instructure.com/courses/214021/pages/characteristics-of-southern-literature
Southern's very much liked to romanticize their past, which would lead to many young readers' historical fiction novels and a lesser extent, films. Southern had long enjoyed sir Walter scots works about medieval romanticism.
Southerners often thought of the South as a land of knights, ladies and calvaries, and weeping willows. The South would be keen more at watching medieval l movies, at least during the early part of the 1900s, where this romanticism perhaps has better connections than the middle half of the 20th century and beyond.
The antibemul South was conservative as its society feared change. Given the souths cultural perceptions, one could imagine a revival in old colonial British ways such as fox hunting. Films will be revied with more welcome than there was in actual history as there would be some sentiment shared between two nation.
A defacto unofficial British alliance or coalition would allow southern writers to think differently of southern loyalists, portraying true British loyalists more positively: while some backwoods hate the rich tories in South Carolina would be vilified and made to resemble that in south Appalachian union Tories of east Tennessee, West Virginia and the free state of Jones. Their motives portrayed in historical fiction is that they are jealous of other peoples wealth not even honorably loyal to their cause of conservatism
It would make sense that novels about southern colonial history would reflect the current difficulty of the British empire's anti-slave feeling relating to the strains between the mother country and her southern colonies' struggles against mercantilism and taxation without representation in the historical fiction novels.
CSA education would essentially be impassioned more than sympathetic during the English civil war, just as most ordinary people at the time were. Defection and desertion remained common throughout the English civil war, but it would produce southern literature Works about Cavaliers.
confederate Cavalier
www.historytoday.com
(Northern England was a royalist stronghold during the English civil war)
The South's education or works would also have a more sympathetic Southern Cavalierversion of the royalist side to a reasonable American extent to celebrate old-world ties between Britain, France, and the South accompanied by the historical Virginia caviler myth. CSA Culture would continue To illustrate a more sympathetic Cavalier perspective to defend their cultural Heritage Against Puritan Yankee romanticism. The Catholic Hibernian Irish ☘️ during colonial times as far back as the 1600s settled in the South and by the 1700s at a 72% southern rateHow Northern England Made the Southern United States | History Today
www.historytoday.com
Cavalier Mythology in the Antebellum South
Powerful people in the Antebellum South feared landless whites almost as much as they feared their slaves.
www.politicalorphans.com
The souths education would view George Washington as a true southern hero. President Washington reasonably didn't want American to be possibly ruined in a war with the British empire. George Washington was manipulated by hamilton to dishonor the franco American treaty alliance through the signing of the jay treaty.
Hamilton would be viewed in a highly negative light along with the northern federalist plan as they would be considered to be betraying Laffite and America's old friend, the french.
Napoleon Bonaparte would be remembered in a better light in the South due to the efforts of Napolean, the third influence, and Napoleon was an enlightened conservative, one could say. But, on the other hand, the french revolution would be viewed rather interestingly in the South as the South was a pro french Jeffersonian stronghold,but a bit later wasn’t as favorable to the French Revolution
There would be positive cultural works about premature southern secession movements, but generally, the South would more admire the old union than flat out despise it. Instead, the South would point to the radical change the republican party threatened. Still, in truth, it would not be hard to portray that the South was an independent country from the north, so, therefore, it should be an "independent nation" Andrew Jackson would be viewed in a mixed manner. Still, it is doubtful Jackson would have ever tolerated slavery's demise. Southern's perhaps would have seen that had he lived long enough; he probably would favor compromise to save the union and eventually support southern independence. The northern Copperhead would be remembered as heroes who fought for freedom against Lincoln's unconstitutional wartime tranny.
European imperialist work would correlate with the so-called "White man'sburdenn" with slavery. In king Leopold's Belgian colony, the congo whos the European nation was friendly to the CSA its king had their African subjects killed and having their limbs hacked of liberally and its inhabits enslaved to work on the rubber plantations While the South might praise imperialism culture works, they will point out slaves may keep their limps and seek to improve the humanitarian treatment of the institution of slavery to decrease the demand of international abolition pressure. While it is true that Belgium did not directly control the country, it is to be noted that when Britain protested slavery, the little confederacy might expose Britain and the other European state of their imperialism which was often silent slavery through imperialist laws.
The CSA allied coalition of Belgium, Portugal, Spain, brazil will use its government power to defend slavery through an economic and diplomatic alliance, including encouraging its cultured works such as films. On the other hand, suppose the South took over Cuba in a war despite a joint franco Spanish intervention on the south behalf in the American civil war and perhaps an alliance or postwar coalition, which is a different discussion altogether.
In that case, I could imagine the South would feel guilty for betraying their Allie and, as a pretty indirect apology, agree to buy more Spanish goods, including its manufactured items, even if the mercantilism trade policies were unfair and disadvantageous to the southern nation. Perhaps in the hypothetical war, Puerto Rico would belong to Spain while Cuba would be a confederate state, further influencing the nation's culture.
The coalition or the aftermath of the Spanish war would allow more Spanish films, books, and other cultural features into the confederate mainstream culture.
confederate toys
Most commercialized toy making was manufactured in the northern states. Still, until world war, one Americas imported much of her toys from Germany despite the protective tariffs that drove commerce to ruin. Independent The South would have homemade toys like it was before the war. Its free trade statutes will allow the nation to freely import toys and other goods from other countries, particularly of their closest allied major industrial french, British industrial powers. DOll houses produced by industrial centers in the South such as new Orleans, the upper South, Mabey in Georgia, or mobile or Brigham make oversized southern plantation-style dollhouses. So while much of the south toy soldiers would be w Britains or MIGNOT and from other foreign brands, it might produce some on her own, probably in Baltimore had she been able to go with the South at any point in time. Whether wooden or tin or lead, the soldiers would be in grey uniforms to celebrate the south wars.
A good southern scrubbing
www.livescience.com
Running water was a luxury shared by few people throughout the 19th century, but European aristocrats did have them by the late Victorian age. This European popularization of indoor plumbing will first catch on in the South among its wealthy urban elite as time would trickle down to lower-income people in metropolitan cities. New Orleans would lead the South in its enhanced plumbing techniques, but a few wealthy gentlemen indeed had indoor plumbing since a rare luxury before the civil war.
Flushed with Pride: 1850s Bathroom Boasts Early Plumbing Technology
The National Park Service in Natchez, Miss. is preserving a 150-year-old bathroom with shockingly modern plumbing.
The southern aristocracy will appreciate toilet paper as toilet paper was invented in 1862 in France. A more robust southern economy means a stronger electric ⚡️ possibility with shocking success https://www.appalachianhistory.net/2018/07/south-carolina-man-who-put-electric-in.html
dixies films and southern works
althistory.fandom.com
Southern films would also defend slavery, especially if a few states kept the institution alive in some states for so long. https://www.americanhistoryusa.com/great-mistake-why-did-south-secede-1860/dixies films and southern works
Cinema of the Confederate States (Differently)
The cinema of the Confederate States, began a few years before the Confederate Civil War. The Confederate film industry began to achieve international recognition in the years following the Socialist era. In the 21st century, Confederate cinema has become popular internationally with hits such...
althistory.fandom.com
In my opinion, slavery could at least last as long as the 1920s perhaps. Nicotine is a very addicting substance, and the tobacco industry will fight back against international abolition pressure. Cotton is what fuelled brtians industrial power. The United Kingdom did support the confederate government during the war leading to Many old British colonial traditions being revived again in the South, such as fox hunting.
The confederacy would avid fans of British/French films, at least in the more early history before they became more accustomed to making their films. New Orleans won't be having their language abolished by Union occupation like it did in the actual past leading to a fluent French Louisiana audience that can read and speak French very well, including proper grammar, unlike the now present reality. New Orleans, during the Antebellum years, maintained close ties with France. One of these aspects was Paris newspapers were read in New Orleans.
Charlie Chaplin just might be invited to the CSA or possibly a joint North and South national movie as he moved to America. But, I'm afraid I disagree that Hollywood should not be in the South, considering the people wanted to separate from the union since before the upper South split.
Southern Silent films
Some of Buster Keaton's works are themed in the South. His famous silent film the General was arguably a commercial flop that prevented him from becoming an independent film writer. South very well may come to this rescue after viewing what they would see as a southern patriotic work from a northerner. Also, Buster Keaton's silent films age better than chaplains and other silent films. D. W. Griffith, famous for his film A birth of a nation and intolerance, will ll undoubtedly produce many films of the South's history in a confederate country Griffith was known for his interest in portraying historical events in his films. The independent South will allow for more of his film apologia, such as describing puritan new England as intolerant witch hunters.Oliver Hardy, a Southern, might be asked to return to his native homeland and invite his buddy to stay in the South where they can have to say in the Films or TV shows they start in, unlike the reality, which allowed them to decline. If the South can be a holdout for silent films, then the very first television sets might have them aired in a time where silent movies were dying out, and few people owned a tv during the 1930- the 1940s were the TV shows just Weren't any good. An orchestra can accompany the soundtrack filming. The first movie aired on television was a silent film named the police patrol.
Some Film historians remarked that the transition to sound hurt the creative making of films. one example was the screening process demonstrated by the French Director Apel Gantz in Napoleon 1927 was not generally introduced until the 1950s. {world encyclopedia] The South admires France, so it will likely adopt that particular method, especially if the french director can come to the CSA.
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Am I the only one utterly baffled by this meme of the South just deciding to up and abolish slavery after fighting a war specifically to preserve it in perpetuity? As far as the immigration issue goes, it’s possible the Confederacy would eventually try to fling wide the gates to white immigrants (despite the WASP elites’ suspicion of Germans and Irish), but that doesn’t mean they’d want to come. The aforementioned plantation economy didn’t provide much upward mobility to white smallholder farmers, or really anyone who would have to compete with slave labor for jobs. The lack of Southern industry would probably also continue for the most part, because the environment isn’t suitable for it pre-air conditioning and it would depend on an influx of capital that Britain would be reluctant to give and risk losing out on its own market share for manufactured goods.
So what role does media play in a rural, planter-dominated state like the Confederacy? Far from a “Southern Hollywood,” I doubt mass media would take off the same way it did in industrializing nations. Rather than nickel-and-dime shows, the upper crust would want to import European cultural signifiers for their exclusive consumption and imitation. While the victory would spur the penning of plenty self-congratulatory epics and so forth, they wouldn’t be trying to create an entirely new culture, since their independence happened because of reactionary rather than revolutionary motivations. Instead, they would try to claim the mantle of “America as the Founding Fathers intended it” and decry the Union as a bunch of redcoats trying to stamp out the liberties of god-fearing Anglo-Saxons (ironic, given their new nation’s status as a British economic colony in all but name). The United States would obviously not be ready to go back and make nice with the Confederacy either, so regardless of whether a second invasion actually happens, let alone succeeds, there would be a powerful revanchist current in the Union’s politics and culture that was instead filled by the gradual exhaustion and disillusionment with Reconstruction that happened IOTL. There would be a bipolar cultural sphere with works essentially saying “to hell with them all” and combining the endemic racist stereotypes against black people with a quasi-populist mockery of the backwards planter class, contrasting with the continuation of the abolitionist message and its support for the reconquest of the South. Despite being discredited by the failures of the Civil War, it would still find widespread appeal at the very least during opportunistic attempts to spark war like the Spanish-American War IOTL.
Now, for black culture on the other hand, the situation would become more revolutionary. With the failure of the Union to liberate them, the Underground Railroad would continue to operate, and depending on how much the war devastates the plantations, there would be even more freed blacks ready to take up the cause. Guerilla warfare would become the order of the day, except instead of groups like the KKK forming to terrorize black communities and pro-Reconstruction whites, the plantations would have to defend themselves from raids by black revolutionaries who would take the Haitian Revolution of the previous generation as their inspiration. The planters would hardly be defenseless against this, but with foreign support by the enemies of the Confederacy and its British backers, these groups would become more organized and culturally significant.
Finally, as for the newly independent Indian Republic, the culture would mostly be dominated by those tribal elites who successfully followed the Confederacy’s lead, so much of the same assumptions would hold. However, if they manage to hold off incursions by white settlers and annexation by both neighboring countries, things could eventually develop in a more interesting direction. Despite being inclined towards the Confederacy from a foreign policy standpoint, their relationship with it would be complicated by the history of the Trail of Tears and the Five Civilized Tribes’ homelands in the Deep South. They would hardly be in any position to pursue revanchist goals or really make any aggressive moves whatsoever, but there could be an earlier pan-indigenous consciousness like AIM in the 1970s which would persist through cultural storytelling and the use of the Cherokee Syllabry. The Union was highly aggressive against various tribes in the West during this era but might choose to be more conciliatory to better their relations with the Indian Republic, and either way, those tribes would have another option to flee to in addition to Canada. The cultural mixing that would result is something beyond my ability to speak authoritatively on, but it would plausibly be divided between the original native inhabitants, those members of the Five Civilized Tribes that voluntarily relocated as IOTL, the ones deported by the Trail of Tears, and the ones driven into the area later by Union military action and settlement.
So what role does media play in a rural, planter-dominated state like the Confederacy? Far from a “Southern Hollywood,” I doubt mass media would take off the same way it did in industrializing nations. Rather than nickel-and-dime shows, the upper crust would want to import European cultural signifiers for their exclusive consumption and imitation. While the victory would spur the penning of plenty self-congratulatory epics and so forth, they wouldn’t be trying to create an entirely new culture, since their independence happened because of reactionary rather than revolutionary motivations. Instead, they would try to claim the mantle of “America as the Founding Fathers intended it” and decry the Union as a bunch of redcoats trying to stamp out the liberties of god-fearing Anglo-Saxons (ironic, given their new nation’s status as a British economic colony in all but name). The United States would obviously not be ready to go back and make nice with the Confederacy either, so regardless of whether a second invasion actually happens, let alone succeeds, there would be a powerful revanchist current in the Union’s politics and culture that was instead filled by the gradual exhaustion and disillusionment with Reconstruction that happened IOTL. There would be a bipolar cultural sphere with works essentially saying “to hell with them all” and combining the endemic racist stereotypes against black people with a quasi-populist mockery of the backwards planter class, contrasting with the continuation of the abolitionist message and its support for the reconquest of the South. Despite being discredited by the failures of the Civil War, it would still find widespread appeal at the very least during opportunistic attempts to spark war like the Spanish-American War IOTL.
Now, for black culture on the other hand, the situation would become more revolutionary. With the failure of the Union to liberate them, the Underground Railroad would continue to operate, and depending on how much the war devastates the plantations, there would be even more freed blacks ready to take up the cause. Guerilla warfare would become the order of the day, except instead of groups like the KKK forming to terrorize black communities and pro-Reconstruction whites, the plantations would have to defend themselves from raids by black revolutionaries who would take the Haitian Revolution of the previous generation as their inspiration. The planters would hardly be defenseless against this, but with foreign support by the enemies of the Confederacy and its British backers, these groups would become more organized and culturally significant.
Finally, as for the newly independent Indian Republic, the culture would mostly be dominated by those tribal elites who successfully followed the Confederacy’s lead, so much of the same assumptions would hold. However, if they manage to hold off incursions by white settlers and annexation by both neighboring countries, things could eventually develop in a more interesting direction. Despite being inclined towards the Confederacy from a foreign policy standpoint, their relationship with it would be complicated by the history of the Trail of Tears and the Five Civilized Tribes’ homelands in the Deep South. They would hardly be in any position to pursue revanchist goals or really make any aggressive moves whatsoever, but there could be an earlier pan-indigenous consciousness like AIM in the 1970s which would persist through cultural storytelling and the use of the Cherokee Syllabry. The Union was highly aggressive against various tribes in the West during this era but might choose to be more conciliatory to better their relations with the Indian Republic, and either way, those tribes would have another option to flee to in addition to Canada. The cultural mixing that would result is something beyond my ability to speak authoritatively on, but it would plausibly be divided between the original native inhabitants, those members of the Five Civilized Tribes that voluntarily relocated as IOTL, the ones deported by the Trail of Tears, and the ones driven into the area later by Union military action and settlement.
Speaking of tobacco, there is a possibility that others compete to economically fight the CSA. Like Cuba and the Philippines and Egypt. 
JWQ
Banned
The Irish in the South, 1815-1877 | David T. Gleeson | University of North Carolina Press
The Irish have been in the South longer than the north since the 1600s in Virginia and Maryland. Irish emigrated at a 72% rate in the southern colonies during colonial times. The South will have trouble attracting the Irish immigrants, but for the southern government to pay for the ship and food would be a good way to attract the immigrants
In reply to immigrants, the Germans are the least likely to come to the confederacy as they were anti-slavery and pro-Union. During the Civil War, they were the backbone of Missouri’s union forces during the early section. The wasp backlash during the 1900s party was hard to do with not just a lost cause movement but a significant forced reconstruction period. I don’t think the South will give up slavery easily, and if it is to give it up, it Has to be at a slow, very gradual pace given the pro-slavery government.
While you point out southern racism, it was an American phenomenon as both sections were intensely racist. Before the Civil War, Black people attempted to conjugate up north northern legislation made sure to do something about it, name the fugitive slave law and state laws banning Black people from coming. Anti-Catholic bigotry lies mainly with The Yankee nativists protestants, particularly in New England. Nativists also helped found by the old 19th century Whig Republican Party.
We agree upon the south cajoling to immigrants, and I agree with other aspects in the assessment. The South could never be an industrial powerhouse like the north was. If indeed a southern industrial revolution will happen gradually in the South will be able to enjoy the fruits of its industrialization. But for the most part, the South would be rural, and for the most part, the southern seemed to prefer it that way as they grew up with nature and wished to preserve it for generations to come.
I can imagine industrialization in the proxy South with new investment from the coalition’s British, French, and other friendly nations. Such automation will provide incentives for gradual manumission in areas that don’t need slavery. I think it is barmy and foolish if great Britain would threaten the South to end slavery in every state or for its national government to meet great Britain’s demand. While the 1920s was a late time to abolish slavery, the last knowingly pro confederate prime minister was gone in 1895, so the institution will probably last as long as the South needs it to.
After the American Civil War, the border states became much more pro csa particularly Kentucky. In 1862 southern victory with a Maryland invasion made it more likely that Baltimore and parts of Maryland would become CSA even if they didn’t 100% prefer it. This postwar underground railway will not be tolerated in slaveholding Kentucky. Also, how much the South gets in the west is kind of another question and another pod, perhaps. However, the underground railway silent film short told from a pro-slavery perspective might be amusing.
European intervention against the Union butterfly the likeliness of European capital going to the north, because why would they wish to help the country they just humbled? Unless perhaps they were making the United States more dependent on Britain.
The British government would prefer British subjects(including Irish crown subjects). If you’re not going to the British colonies, go to the CSA. My ancestor in the 1880s immigrated from France to New Orleans at a time when New Orlean’s prosperity and importance faded away from a Union victory. The Polish exiles might also have to make the CSA their home. The amount of confederate innovation during the war and its makeshift industries was incredible as The South’s industry would reach new heights like it did in actual history. I don’t see why they wouldn’t be Abel to harness film production, but Much of the movies viewed would be imported.
Even if the South had Hollywood, California, much of the films were produced elsewhere, like in Pennsylvania and New Hampshire. Nickelodeons were victims of their success, Which allowed for standard theaters called the movie palaces. At first, Movies were a working-class thing(which is ironic)
Much of the British trends would be adopted, including smocking rooms. Smoking is entertainment for some people. It just isn’t a cultured one. If New Orleans has its prosperity spared, its plumbing will reach wonderous as the city is built below sea level, allowing its members to think outside the box and let us never forget its the south industrial giant.
Electricity lights used by arc lamps existed before the civil war. Still, once the light bulb catches on for Europe’s aristocracy, it will be desired by the south elite, and it would decrease the north’s flammable kerosene lamps. So new Orleans electricity company was formed in 1882, and the other southern cities caught on quickly.
Some songs have been composed in the confederacy that has been lost, such as the Manassas quickstep. Southern independence means southern pride, including better research and memory to the national cause. The civil war, which was a total war upon the south people, allowed many artistic works to be produced; poetry in the South flourished.
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