Entente Powers after Central Powers victory

Let’s say that the CP defeats the entente by 1917 or 18. What would become of Britain, France, Russia, Japan, etc. following a defeat by the Central Powers?
 
I think France and Britain will try to form a closer strategic partnership, using trade deals designed to cover their respective waetime economic vulnerabilities. The Soviet Union will do what it did IOTL with the forced industrialization, wile remaining an international pariah. Japan is more difficult, I imagine that the British might want to keep the alliance which changes their interwar history a fair bit.
 
United Kingdom, dominios and colonies: British Empire wouldn't lose any colonies when Germans would be unable defeat Brits on sea. But their colonies would take some German colonies outside of Africa. Politically in UK wouldn't happen anything radical but decolonistaion speciality in India would look different. It is possible that India gain dominion status in 1930's.

France: It would lose much of colonies and some border regions. Massive reparations and military destriction. It is possible than some radical right wing movement like Action Francaise takes power but France hardly is going start new war when it had lost two previous ones during last five decades. And it wouldn't has resources anyway.

Russia: Pretty much depends when exactly and how it is defeated. But one thing is sure: monarchy will be doomed and we hardly see peaceful Russia very soon.

United States (if joins): Probably it just return to isolationism.

Italy (if joins): Some border adjustments and massive reparations and military restriction.

Japan: Japan could still keep its conquests. Germans have not way take them back. Japan probably still tries take over East Asia.

China: All kind of shit still happen for the country.

Serbia, Romania, Greece and Montenegro: Some territorial losses, reparations and military restriction.

Belgium: Loses Belgian Congo and might be puppetised by Germany.

Luxembourg: Annexed by Germany.
 
United Kingdom, dominios and colonies: British Empire wouldn't lose any colonies when Germans would be unable defeat Brits on sea. But their colonies would take some German colonies outside of Africa. Politically in UK wouldn't happen anything radical but decolonistaion speciality in India would look different. It is possible that India gain dominion status in 1930's.
Belgium: Loses Belgian Congo and might be puppetised by Germany.

You don't think Britain would trade colonies to get the Germans off the Belgian coast?
 
Britain (along with Japan and Portugal) and Germany would probably agree to either a status quo peace or to taking parts of Germany's colonial empire in exchange for accepting German domination of the content. Wilhelm would want to push his Weltpolitik ambitions further but he had fairly little real power during the war, and both the Reichstag and Hindenburg/Ludendorrf would want a more pragmatic approach, and politicians in these Entente countries would probably rather trade with Germany rather than push for revenge.

The popular trope is to make France a revanchist communist/fascist* state, but I have my doubts about this--the Lost Generation created a culture wary of any kind of war, and a stronger Germany (that would have annexed Briey-Longwy forced the destruction of forts north of Paris) would be impossible to defeat, and in fact France would probably be drawn into becoming economically reliant on Germany, though not to the same extent as Germany's eastern puppet states.

Russia would be significantly weakened and in a state of civil war. Germany would want to aid the Whites after finishing the war in the West, but this could fail just as Allied intervention in Russia IOTL failed to stop the Bolsheviks. Russia could also simply collapse into warlordism given how fragmented the White movement was.

Italy proper would lose little to no territory--Austria had no ambitions of taking back Venetia or Lombardia--but would have to forsake its claims in Albania, and depending on how the war went in the Middle East and Africa, it could be forced to give up Libya and Somalia to pro-Ottoman Sennusi and Dervish states. They would definitely lose Rhodes, though I'm not quite sure who would take it (between Germany, Austria, Turkey, or perhaps even a consolation to Greece). They would certainly have a politically tumultuous future between fascists, socialists, and anarchists.

Belgium would become a German puppet state with expanded autonomy for the Flemish, while ceding its territory east of the Meuse to Germany, as well as the Congo. However, they would gain some border regions from France that were desired by Flemish irredentists, including Dunkerque.

Serbia and Montenegro would become Austrian puppet states, but Vienna and Budapest would probably avoid annexing them outright given how much trouble they would cause. Romania would lose some mountain passes to Hungary and most of Dobruja to Bulgaria while gaining Bessarabia, and Germany would gain control of its oil reserves. Greece would lose territory to Bulgaria, and Salonika might be leased to Germany as a naval base.

The United States would almost certainly have remained neutral in any CP victory scenario unless the war is ended before Americans make it to the front lines in France. If this is the case, then the war is viewed as an absurd folly and the US retreats even further into isolationism than it did IOTL, other than seeking to repair relations with Germany through trade.
 
United Kingdom, dominios and colonies: British Empire wouldn't lose any colonies when Germans would be unable defeat Brits on sea. But their colonies would take some German colonies outside of Africa. Politically in UK wouldn't happen anything radical but decolonistaion speciality in India would look different. It is possible that India gain dominion status in 1930's.
I'm not very convince of this, post war brition was very chaotic and whithout the salve of victory I can see much more radical movmints, especaly from workers groups could push some form of extremism.
 
Britain: General elections after defeat lead to a rejection of the Liberal-Conservative coalition and endorse the Liberal-Labor block (the Liberal Party split in the OTL; this is a reverse of the OTL election results). Mass social unrest as returning veterans return to civilian life during an economic downturn sparked by war reparations to Germany, which then is amplified during the Great Depression. Overseas effects less pronounced, with the dominant Labor Party in the UK being less heavy-handed with colonial possessions such as India and Malaysia than was the case OTL. Possible Bolshevik uprising in Britain during the opening years to the Great Depression.

France: General elections after defeat result in a victory for the opposition Socialist bloc, including the rising French Communist Party (again, reversing the OTL result). Ironically, the loss of European territory to Germany accompanied by the humiliation of a second defeat in living memory makes the Socialist government take up a hard-line stance on retaining French overseas possessions while increasing taxes there in order to pay reparations to Germany. Backlash to increased taxation coupled with hard-line policy toward the colonies results in revolts and revolutionary movements in Algeria, the rest of North Africa, and Indochina. Hard line Socialist government quells opposition both at home and abroad, providing fragile stability in France and insurgencies overseas.

(France has a much more sordid historical tendency toward militancy at home and gouging its colonies abroad than Britain does.)

Russia: Complete collapse of the monarchy with Germany and Austria playing various factions against one another to prevent a unified national government. End result being a Communist government in European Russia, German/Austrohungarian client states in the Baltics, Belarus, and Ukraine, and various short lived "nations" spread across Asian Russia, from the "Stans" through Siberia. (Think the Warlord period of China, spanning from Grozny to Vladivostok.)

United States: Isolationism from Europe, sending troops to the Far East of Russia to stabilize the Russian Pacific region, only to be kicked out by local warlords.

Balkans: AustroHungarian hegemony over Serbia and Romania; Bulgaria and Greece nervous.

Turkey: Regains Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Arabia. Deals with local independence movements harshly, whether they are Jewish or Arab. Negotiates Egyptian independence with Britain.

Persia: Becomes a German ally and client state, both for development and in order to keep the Turks at bay.
 
I'm not very convince of this, post war brition was very chaotic and whithout the salve of victory I can see much more radical movmints, especaly from workers groups could push some form of extremism.

Except with a robust franchise, basic recognition of the legitimacy of the State, free press, ect there's plenty of space to vent legitiment political concerns and incentive for the political structure to recognize them and try to snatch up that constiuency so there's not alot of space for them to fester and shift to radical solutions. Functional republican instiutions are a great hedge against extremism, and you're far more likely to simply see an economically Left government elected who will impliment more pro-worker policies.

Britain (along with Japan and Portugal) and Germany would probably agree to either a status quo peace or to taking parts of Germany's colonial empire in exchange for accepting German domination of the content. Wilhelm would want to push his Weltpolitik ambitions further but he had fairly little real power during the war, and both the Reichstag and Hindenburg/Ludendorrf would want a more pragmatic approach, and politicians in these Entente countries would probably rather trade with Germany rather than push for revenge.

Japan and Germany certainly (several figures in the British government were actively worrying during the war of Japan's ultimate geopolitical alignment, realizing the two powers lack conflicting interest and Britian and Japan were increasingly drifting apart) but politicans in Britian were actively worried about the trade volume they were losing to German industry and the threat it posed to her economic position. Not enough for war, mind you, but I think London is liable to at least play diplomatic chess to try to shore up their trade and investment position and contain German wealth.
 
I'm not very convince of this, post war brition was very chaotic and whithout the salve of victory I can see much more radical movmints, especaly from workers groups could push some form of extremism.
Indeed. People drastically underestimate the social, political and military chaos in 1919.
 
I'm not sure what would happen, but I fo find the idea of Britain and France becoming radicalised quite plausible. Both put up with periods of great unrest in the interwar periods as the primary winners of WW1, a loss is going to see a hell of a lot more.
 
Except with a robust franchise, basic recognition of the legitimacy of the State, free press, ect there's plenty of space to vent legitiment political concerns and incentive for the political structure to recognize them and try to snatch up that constiuency so there's not alot of space for them to fester and shift to radical solutions. Functional republican instiutions are a great hedge against extremism, and you're far more likely to simply see an economically Left government elected who will impliment more
And that's great, except it was thoe a democracy that Hitler was elected, I'm not saying that is what is going to happen to brition but democracy is not protection agenst extremisum espcaly if that government is highly unstable, like brition was gust after ww1 whith a victory. A diffete my not cause the colaps of the British government but it is not at all impossible.
 
And that's great, except it was thoe a democracy that Hitler was elected, I'm not saying that is what is going to happen to brition but democracy is not protection agenst extremisum espcaly if that government is highly unstable, like brition was gust after ww1 whith a victory. A diffete my not cause the colaps of the British government but it is not at all impossible.
1. Are you drunk?
2. Britain has a far stronger parliamentary political culture than Germany did.
 
1. Are you drunk?
2. Britain has a far stronger parliamentary political culture than Germany did.
1.no I'm not
2. Germany arguably had the strongest communist culture in europe and yet still became fascist, gust becuse there is a strong palimintarian culture dosnt meen it can't be topeld by a UK citizenry that considers it to have failed. And it can come from many angles, from a much wores Irish war for independence to trying to use the army to brake one of the verius worker strikes.
 
2. Germany arguably had the strongest communist culture in europe and yet still became fascist, gust becuse there is a strong palimintarian culture dosnt meen it can't be topeld by a UK citizenry that considers it to have failed. And it can come from many angles, from a much wores Irish war for independence to trying to use the army to brake one of the verius worker strikes.

Communism and Fascism are both highly Authoritarian structures, and while I won't overplay Horseshoe theory in saying they're the same thing they do appeal to the same type of methodology/though patterns (They use the same Verbs, basically, but different Nouns). And its worth noting that not only was Weimer's democratic system built on a bunch of unstable parties with no built up loyalty or credibility (Governments were collapsing left and right because they had to be made out of half a dozen smaller members), had a military executive who basically ran day to day affairs as a result and was the reason Hitler became Chancellor as a way to head off the Socialists (who if you count them collectively instead of as individual parties were much more popular than the Authoritiarian Right) from gaining power because said lingering Military power structure from the old autocratic German system diden't want them and needed a guard dog which the Fascists provided (And then proceeded to eat the state from the inside, just like Mussolini's Fascists did). If the army being called in to break a Strike in Britain is so controversial, than you'll get defectors from the party who's leadership ordered it and guess what? Now there's an election. And the party leadership knows this. England's culture in the 20's is NOT the same as Germany, and if the majority of the voters want economic reform well there's a party that will give it to them.
 
Top