English protastantism with Henry VIII' break with Rome

Why do you consider Protestant domination of England as being inevitable, no matter what Henry VIII does?

No. At the contrary, without anglicanism the country is likely to remain catholic as the differences between both branchs are...slim at best.

Protestantism, I mean regular protestantism not "national catholicism trying to disguise itself into some really weird kind of protestantism", would be as widespread, probably slightly more.

But nothing such as taking over England.
 
No. At the contrary, without anglicanism the country is likely to remain catholic as the differences between both branchs are...slim at best.

Protestantism, I mean regular protestantism not "national catholicism trying to disguise itself into some really weird kind of protestantism", would be as widespread, probably slightly more.

But nothing such as taking over England.

Actually, lutheranism and calvinism were growing rapidly, admittedly from a small base. I think it entirely possible that england could have become protesrant, possibly after henrys death.
 
Why? Even up to King James I, England remained majority Catholic in OTL.

Not to mention that Henry VIII was a "warrior of the Church" having officially denounced Lutheranism in England.

I think there might be less protestants than OTL without people like Cromwell and the Puritans ever getting a chance to gain power.
 
Why? Even up to King James I, England remained majority Catholic in OTL.

I am not sure about this, I would say that by Elizabeth's reign most where Anglican. There were not rebellions when the Spanish Armarda was about, as I suspect there would have been if a majority of Catholics had predominated.

Similarly went Mary Queen of Scots was held prisoner in England there was not real plan to free her and put her on Elizabeth's throne.
 
Similarly went Mary Queen of Scots was held prisoner in England there was not real plan to free her and put her on Elizabeth's throne.

Actually, there were. Several of them. Mostly organised by Northern nobles as the south was far more protestant, but still. The reason MQofS was executed was because she kept getting involved with such plots, even though she herself was only lukewarm in support.
 
There would be small intrusions of Calvinism, Lutheranism, Zwinglism, etc,but absent geopolitical reasons for a break with Rome, England (like Ireland) would remain officially Roman Catholic. To his dying day, Henry actually still considered himself a Catholic, although he had removed his national church from under Papal authority.

It is interesting to speculate how this might eventually affect later English political development including the English colonies. In OTL, the Church of England found itself wedged between Roman Catholics on one side and more radical protestants onthe other. This helped establish the tradition of moderation and compromise that charcterizes so many things Anglican - and which is also an essential element of anglo-american representative democracy as it eventually developed. Also, Anglicanism was fertile ground for religious rationalism and Deism, attitudes which limited the rise of radical anti-clericalism (and political radicalism) in Britain and the Colonies. I tend to believe that a Britain which remained uniformly Catholic would be less likely to evolve the particular suite of political institutions that have made the Anglosphere the most stable and sucessful area of democracy in the world.
 
I'd say we have a fair chance of a much more powerful Spain, since they don't lose the Armada in their religiously inspired debacle of an attempt on England. They keep the Armada, keep their prestiege, and as a result of the first two, keep their empire for considerably longer When/if decolonisation occurs, there is a good chance that it is peaceful or at least organized, leading to competent South American governments and a Spain that keeps a few of them and retains it's power and standing in Europe. So basically Spain becomes what Britan became OTL, probably absorbes Portugal like England did to Scotland, and promotes Catholicism more successfully than OTL.

Protestantism on the other hand might well be screwed. Without Brithish backing, the Dutch might not break away, the Hugonots are eliminated more quickly, and Prussia loses more of it's wars. Without a Protestant nation of enough power to counterbalance Spain, France, Austria, and England, all that is Protestant is northern Germany and Scandinavia. With that little, Protestantism might be mopped up like previous heresies, and not even make it to modern times. Ottomans might be in trouble with a stronger Spain too, so no Protestant England could rapidly snowball into a Catholicism wank.
 
Personally I think a brand of Protestantism is likely to take off anyway. Protestantism is a merchant's religion and became successful across Northern Europe among urban trade-focused powers. If England had stayed Catholic it would have been the exception.
 
Personally I think a brand of Protestantism is likely to take off anyway. Protestantism is a merchant's religion and became successful across Northern Europe among urban trade-focused powers. If England had stayed Catholic it would have been the exception.

Venice and Genoa.
 
Protestantism in England isn't just going to disappear if you get rid of Henry's formation of Anglicanism. You're more likely to get a situation like the French Wars of Religion - the richest, most politically important parts of England were already turning Protestant at this time, including, crucially, London.

If there wasn't already a big groundswell of support for a split with the Papacy by 1536, Henry couldn't have got away with the Act of Supremacy. And trying to quash Protestantism in the south would ruin the economy, not to mention making the Pilgrimage of Grace look like a friendly stroll.
 
Protestantism in England isn't just going to disappear if you get rid of Henry's formation of Anglicanism. You're more likely to get a situation like the French Wars of Religion - the richest, most politically important parts of England were already turning Protestant at this time, including, crucially, London.
Except that the richests parts of France remained catholic, and even more "ligueux" than "politique". The choice of protestantism was indeed related to economy, but more in a "identitary" war than concurrence.
That said, protestantism, critically in the south, was more popular and excentered than "you're rich, you're protestant", that's came from people having misunderstand what someone having heard of Weber and didn't completly getting it believed being true.
 
I just finished reading Christopher Haigh's English Reformations: Religion, Politics and Society under the Tudors. Basically the "Reformation" in England was more political than religious that nonetheless resulted in a change from overwhelming Catholic population to a seemingly overwhelming "Protestant" one. But it was never enviable that England would become Protestant even with Henry VIII's break with Rome, a lot of luck helped the minute Protestant minority in 1530 to become supposed majority by 1603.

Until late in Elizabeth's reign, the vast majority of the English (i.e. the commons) were Catholic because the majority of the population's religious experience were through their parish churches and the vast majority of parish priests were Catholic. The Elizabethan persecution in the 1580s due to the Spanish threat, the fact that those Catholic priests in charge of the parish slowly died out without a Catholic replacement, and the change of population with memory of the "old religion" eventually led to conformity to the Church of England for the vast majority of the population. However, this doesn't mean the commons became Protestant especially if you asked Protestant ministers.

The English population by the end of Elizabeth's reign fell into four categories of Christianity: godly Protestants, recusant papists, parish anglicans, and 'Old Catholics.' The godly were Reformed/Calvinist Protestants, the recusants were essentially reformed Catholics, and the 'Old Catholics' were thoroughly traditionalist Catholics. While those three were minorities with roughly the same percentage of the population, the majority were the parish anglicans. Parish anglicans were the common people I noted in the above whose religious experience revolved around their local parish, they were the least affected by the religious Reformation they continued their "religion of worship and good works" under the "Protestant" Church of England as they had under the Roman Catholic Church. Basically the majority the English went to their parish church on Sunday, prayed to their God, learned again how to be good, and went off home until the next Sunday when they did it again.

I don't have the time to go over everything in the book, but it's been very thought provoking about the supposed evitablity of England becoming Protestant after Henry's break with Rome if in fact it's ever become close to Protestant.
 
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There is a misconception of the Church of England being Protestant. Actually, it considers itself both Catholic and Reformed. Henry VIII, despite his excommunication and break from the See of Rome, continued to view himself as a Catholic and that his new Church would keep the traditions and organizational structure, except that its offices would be filled by men appointed by the crown. It was intended to be a state-run English Catholic Church rather than "Roman Catholic". However, from the start, its development was shaped by men who were closeted Lutherans (like Thomas Cromwell), and so was counted among Protestant heresies such as Lutheranism and Calvinism.
 
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