I don't know much about this topic and maybe this would be implausible but what if the English peasant's revolt of 1381 managed to overthrow the monarchy? What happens next? Do the rebel leaders install themselves as the new kings or do they set up some early socialist workers' state?
English Peasant Revolt overthrows the King?
- Thread starter The Federalist
- Start date
The peasant didn't want to overthrow King Richard II, they wanted to to get rid of some of his unpopular advisors and to abolish serfdom
Correct. In those days it was always "God save the King. Down with bad Government".
How about a workers' state under the King? What if that happened?
That's probably what they wanted (the peasants anyway). Don't forget, though, that it was a mostly middle-class led revolt, so their concerns would be diferent...
Valdemar II
Banned
And it wasn't entirely incorrect, ironic enough the peasant lifestyle was better under absolute kings than under more pluralistic governments with a strong nobility.
The leaders of the so-called Peasant's Revolt were mostly middle class, so their objectives (better word) would be different...
Like... And according to Wikipedia, John Ball and Wat Tyler wanted to destroy the hierarchical feudal system and had egalitarian values so even if they were middle class, they pretty much had the same goals as the peasants.
Wat Tyler had 3 main demands: abolition of serfdom, fixed-low rate land rental prices, and amnesty for the rebels. When Richard II met with him, the king agreed to all three. Tyler's arrogance got him killed during his second meeting with Richard. Richard's youth (he was 14 at the time) men t that he didn't have the power to implement the agreement (which turned out to be nothing more than a deceptive appeasement of the peasants). These events also gave Richard an inflated ego and he grew rude and cocky (a typical teenager).
Thande
Donor
I posted a thread on this a while ago...what Wat wanted 
was the abolition of serfdom, the abolition of the clergy (just one archbishop of Canterbury and one king) and the other matters people mentioned above. The King was never the target of early English rebellions: the King, at least in theory, was the people's friend because they were both the enemies of the nobility.
was the abolition of serfdom, the abolition of the clergy (just one archbishop of Canterbury and one king) and the other matters people mentioned above. The King was never the target of early English rebellions: the King, at least in theory, was the people's friend because they were both the enemies of the nobility.A yeoman is a peasant who owned his own land and often farmed it himself in this context the term is similar to the Russian kulak.
What if he hadn't been killed and the demands are met properly and not abandoned soon after?
Richard II grows to be a wise and crafty ruler. These attributes anable him to stay in power until his death in 1429, when he is suceeded by his son, King Edward IV. Because of the way he handled the 1st Wat Tyler rebellion in 1381, Richard became much loved and respected by the peasants. He is remembered today as Richard the Beloved. After 1381, Tyler grew cocky, rude and arrogant. He launched a 2nd rebellion in 1388, demanding more "rights and entitlements" from the crown. He threatened to lead an army of "true English men" against the crown, stating that "without a king holding us down, we can rise to new heights." This time, Richard had no choice but to crush Tyler, who was killed by the king's own sword on 3 April 1389. Afterwards, Richard implemented some of Tyler's demands.
If, on the other hand, Tyler kills Richard in the 1388/89 rebellion, then John of Gaunt becomes King John II and crushes the rebellion. Wat Tyler is drawn and quartered (if not killed in battle) along with some of his senior men. The rest are sent home with a clear understanding of what happens when one rises up and rebels against the king. John II then undoes most of Richard II's reforms.
If, on the other hand, Tyler kills Richard in the 1388/89 rebellion, then John of Gaunt becomes King John II and crushes the rebellion. Wat Tyler is drawn and quartered (if not killed in battle) along with some of his senior men. The rest are sent home with a clear understanding of what happens when one rises up and rebels against the king. John II then undoes most of Richard II's reforms.
I posted a thread on this a while ago...what Wat wanted
The King was never the target of early English rebellions: the King, at least in theory, was the people's friend because they were both the enemies of the nobility.
Almost made spit on the screen....
Remember, Tyler's ideological demands were not neccessarily those of the mob itself. Did all those craftsmen, yeomen, and local worthies want some kind of proto-Socialism instituted? Highly doubtful. The revolt was basically about excessive taxation levied on the (as it was) lower middle class, not some sort of quest for the instituting of Utopia.
As more than one person has pointed out, the Peasants' Revolt was notable of it's abscence of genuine peasants.
As more than one person has pointed out, the Peasants' Revolt was notable of it's abscence of genuine peasants.
Yes, it was mostly yeoman farmers, village artisans, and even some small knights IIRC. One of the main targets was the legal records of deeds and tax rolls etc, which were burned in the earliest stages of the rebellion.
In fact, one of the main causes of dissatisfaction was the attempt of the government to artificially fix wages. Following the Black Death, conditions for the artisans and labourers had improved drastically, as they could travel to seek better wages, and scarcity of labour led to a seller's market. The major landowners and some of the guilds demanded legislation to prevent wage inflation. This did not prove popular.