English conquest of Mexico
- Thread starter walmart
- Start date
1) Depends on what the POD is (i.e. literally OTL up until 1521-22 for England to make the attempt, or something earlier?). If OTL till 1521, it's very VERY unlikely as not only was Spain on an upward military-industrial (for the time) swing, but England was just getting over the War of the Roses' aftermath and mostly focused on themselves, France, Scotland, and Ireland. An earlier POD (especially one pre-Black Death era) and it's anybody's game. Also keep in mind, in order to get (or at least keep) Mexico, you'd need Cuba as well since its location gives it a dominating advantage over commerce/travel to and from Mexico. Taking Cuba and Mexico from the Spanish is....well, dicey.
2) Depends on the nature and scope of the conquest, but IMO either Spain spends all the money/men to get it back (because 'aLL oF AmeRICa belONgS To hiS caTHoLIc majESTY!'), or if they accept/brush off the loss then probably focus on dominating South America (perhaps to Portuguese Brazil's detriment...maybe Tordesillas gets accurately adhered to?). And there's always Africa, India, and the North American Gulf Coast...
Meanwhile, England is in a position of 1-1 swapping with the Spaniards, and the question then becomes 'how well do they vassalize the native Mexicans' compared to the Spanish? Personally I sneer at the narrative that they'd just do "Manifest Destiny, 16th Edition", since that outlook and practice was overwhelmingly informed by OTL experience in 17th Century New England/Virginia, but something like how the East India Company was managed could arise (looking at the Irish Plantations as a model of example is a non sequitur since the population disparity is wildly different, even after all the plagues). So coastal trade posts with a central inland headquarters and a collection of Native 'princely states' and 'West Indian/Meshican' Company holdings.
3) With the above in mind, either Mesoamerican vocabulary, fashion, products, food, etc. gets internalized and adopted as new elements of English culture, or is regarded as 'exotic' and takes longer to make an impact domestically. Either way, a prolonged presence in Mesoamerica means a lot more exposure to a large, developed cultural milieu and some degree of diffusion (both ways, mind).
Last edited:
I don't think England had the kind of power projection capability for this to be plausible. They hardly had any control over much of Ireland during the Tudor period until Kinsale in 1600.
They also didn't have the kind of infrastructure or incentives for overseas conquest yet or much of any kind of foothold in the Caribbean. There also was no longer a big spare segment of military manpower after the reforms of Henry VII as it pertained to livery and maintenance. Spain had militarized border marches without much to do and Knightly Orders full of military manpower with religious expansionist ideology running through them.
They also didn't have the kind of infrastructure or incentives for overseas conquest yet or much of any kind of foothold in the Caribbean. There also was no longer a big spare segment of military manpower after the reforms of Henry VII as it pertained to livery and maintenance. Spain had militarized border marches without much to do and Knightly Orders full of military manpower with religious expansionist ideology running through them.
I would imagine it would start with a conquest of the yucatan around the annexation of Belize, but I know literally nothing of the period or how to turn that into an invasion of the central valley
This would be fascinating yet difficult to ascertain. We never really had an example of the British having a colony with a majority of the indigenous. It wouldn’t be like the Raj, Canada, Australia, the US or the others. Settlers would have to get used to the natives and they’d have to deal with the presence of the Catholicism there (though them siding with the natives against that could work...)
It would be a very unique situation. I’m assuming this is not just Mexico, but the Vuceroyalty Of New Spain...
It would be a very unique situation. I’m assuming this is not just Mexico, but the Vuceroyalty Of New Spain...
One question that comes to mind is could the British control Mexico if it takes it after there's an established mostly hispanicized population? The only way to avoid that is as others have mentioned, a Middle Ages POD. Though...what if Elizabeth I does marry Philip and both countries partner up in their colonization of the Americas and somehow one of Elizabeth's "Sea Dogs" ends up being the one to land in Mexico and burn his ships and sack Tenochtitlan.
Mexico had already been conquered by Spain by the time Elizabeth and Philip were born...
I realize that now...😅, perhaps some different type of marriage deal between England and Castille in place of Catherine of Aragon's marriages.
The Natives would be Catholic and likely significantly militant about it due to the nature of mission education
The only way this isn't the case is if the settlement happens in a small window of time in the mid 16th century
After about a century of rule, Indians in the Spanish colonial hierarchy tended to be the most religiously devout and have the Church as integral to almost every facet of life from education to economic matters
Last edited:
Only except that the Aztecs were beaten in 1521...
So the British could do it if they were quick enough or if the Spanish fucked up enough that they couldn’t keep it.
How long could the British hold on to Mexico in this situation? If the War of 1812 still happens, things could get even more interesting for Britain in North America.
It would have to be a Catholic Brit. Otherwise, you get an earlier Plan de Iguala.
If holding onto mean the British Dynasty lasting then I don't see why it would fall, esp. if it brought about Parliamentary Monarchism. Overt British dominance &/or influence wouldn't last past the century. Soft Power will likely remain however.
A willing convert wouldn't be difficult with so many Hanoverians about.