Well, the s.o.b's that make up the Floridian planter class would have to learn to live with half a million or so square miles.
English Canada/French Carolina: A Timeline
- Thread starter Gabingston
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It depends on how stable they are. If they have good relations with Florida and the mother country, then perhaps they could work together and Mexico could become powerful. However, if they have hostile relations with Florida and America, then Mexico might he doomed to instability and ultimately fracture. I look forward to what happens next!
Here's a poll on what happens in Mexico.
www.strawpoll.me
EDIT: I should've added a "both the North and Central America split off" option. Oh well, guess I'll have to work with this.
What happens in Mexico?
Vote Now! [The country stays together] [Central America splits off, The North stays] [The North splits off, Central America stays]
www.strawpoll.me
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I support Mexico staying together. It lets there be 2 medium powers to somewhat balance out the juggernaut to the North. Of course, combined they only have 60 million people compared to America’s 170 million, but still.
Part 88: South of the Border
Part 88: South Of The Border
Alright, I think it’s time to talk about Mexico. Now, after a brief occupation by the Commonwealth of America, Mexico became an independent Republic, as the Americans didn’t want a return of the Bourbons to their neck of the woods. However, that didn’t mean that Mexico didn’t have its fair share of internal divisions. The country stretched from California in the Northwest to Panama in the Southeast, with 3,000 miles and numerous deserts, mountains and jungles separating the two. Not only was the country split geographically, but also ethnically, as the country was split between the European north and Indigenous and Mestizo south. Some wanted a more centralized state, while others wanted more regional autonomy, especially in Central America.Listen, I’m no expert on how this plays out, but to keep a long story short, Mexico evolves into a Federal System, with each of the provinces/states/territories maintaining some level of control over their own affairs, but subject to the national government in Mexico City. However, Central America held a passing referendum on independence, thus splitting off from Mexico and forming the Republic of Guatemala. So, the old Viceroyalty of New Spain had now become two new independent countries, Mexico and Guatemala. We’ll see what the future holds for these two nations, but I’ve got to figure out what the heck happens in Russia, so stay tuned for that one. For now, though, have a good day.
Alright, so here is how the Russia update is doing:
Elections are held in 1924 for the new Republican Council, and it ends up being a mix of Conservatives, Liberals and Radicals. Naturally, these disparate groups begin to bicker and fight, which leads to not a whole lot getting done. After a brief era of optimism, the public mood quickly turns sour, and tensions within Russia begin to rise.
However, I don't know what happens next. Does one of the factions (presumably the Radicals) pull a coup? Does some once-in-a-lifetime genius manage to unify the country? Does Russia fall into another civil war? Does the country fracture? Give me your suggestions.
Elections are held in 1924 for the new Republican Council, and it ends up being a mix of Conservatives, Liberals and Radicals. Naturally, these disparate groups begin to bicker and fight, which leads to not a whole lot getting done. After a brief era of optimism, the public mood quickly turns sour, and tensions within Russia begin to rise.
However, I don't know what happens next. Does one of the factions (presumably the Radicals) pull a coup? Does some once-in-a-lifetime genius manage to unify the country? Does Russia fall into another civil war? Does the country fracture? Give me your suggestions.
I vote for the "genius unifying the country" option. We haven't really seen many in-depth looks at specific people ITTL.
That would be nice, but at the same time it feels a bit deus ex machina-ish. I wonder if instead of a once-in-a-lifetime genius we would end up with TTL’s version of Vlad Putin just kinda holding things together.
Personally, I'd love for a united democratic Russia to come into being, but that doesn't seem on the cards at the mo. Seems likely we will see a break down of relations between the victorious bands and parties, and a sort of mini-civil war. Who the public begins to sour on is likely going to be whoever wins the 1924 elections, as they may well be unable to meet the challenges of reconstruction to the public's liking. If that happens, the Radicals may attempt a coup, which could lead the government in power to seize more control in an attempt to keep the republic under their control, with vague promises for continued elections in the future. Just my two cents!
Alternately, and not so pessimistically, we could see an unstable but working republic continue onward, with the genuine democrats on both sides working to keep it going (if only to ensure their Parties continue to exist) while Radicals bubble and simmer but do not feel comfortable enough in their positions to attempt a coup.
Part 89: Liberals vs Radicals
Part 89: Liberals vs Radicals
After years of war and bloodshed, the Russian Civil War was officially over. The Monarchy was no more and Russia was now a Republic. Elections were scheduled for June of 1924, so the mood among the public was that of cautious optimism. The war was over, after all, what could stop Russia from achieving a brighter future?Most of the Russian Conservatives and Traditionalists had supported the Czar in the Civil War, so they were either dead, exiled or forbidden to run for office. Thus, when the elections were held (drawing mainly from the urban areas and the non-noble middle-upper class), the composition ranged from the small faction of Conservatives who either sided with the Republicans or stayed out of the Civil War entirely, Liberals who advocated major liberal overhauls at a reasonable rate to Radicals who viewed believed that the entire old order was rotten to the core and should be completely overthrown.
The period of optimism that started with the end of the civil war in 1922 lasted approximately until Late 1924 when tensions began building in the new Council of the Republic. While there was some good will that was remaining from being comrades (it’s a Russia update, of course I’m gonna use that term) during the civil war, the gulf between the two factions on issues ranging from land reform to religion to foreign policy to how to deal with former Czarists quickly made itself apparent. The policies promoted by the Liberals who formed the first government pleased neither the remaining conservatives (who believed that things like disestablishing the Orthodox Church and confiscating the land of Nobles who supported the Czar were going too far) or the Radicals (who believed that both the Church and the old Nobility, regardless of who they supported in the Civil War should be crushed). Civil unrest became very common in Russian cities as frustration with the gridlock and lack of action grew, and the center began to falter as more and more Russians were drawn to the extremes, particularly the extreme Left.
The Radicals had been most popular in urban, industrial areas, but they began to expand their base into the rural heartland during the period after the elections. They’d won around 30% of the seats, the second largest faction after the Liberals who’d won half of the seats in the Council. With their growing popularity and the growing dissatisfaction with the Liberals, the Radicals called for another round of elections in Late 1925. However, the Liberals declined, telling them to stick with the program, which they did reluctantly. However, by 1928, it was clear that things were coming to a breaking point. The political divisions were persistent, the wounds of the civil war were still highly visible and the 1928 Global Economic Crash (which I will get to in another update) made the already shaky economy tank. With all of this occurring ahead of the election, it gave the Radicals the final boost of popularity to go ahead and win the elections, taking a slim majority in the Council of the Republic. Russia was now under the rule of the most ardent revolutionaries, and interesting times were sure to come...
Seems about right. Are the Radicals anti-democracy at this point? Seems like it's worked pretty well for them so far, so I could see them being alright with a bit of it... as long as it keeps going their way, I suppose.
I'm gonna do a poll on the fate of China, and I'll lay out the options right here.
First, the Qing Dynasty itself was fiercely divided between reformers and reactionaries, so I'll put both of those options in. Second, there could be a Republican movement that comes to power, although that seems less likely than OTL, considering that they wouldn't have the American and French Revolutions to serve as inspiration. Third, a prominent military commander could ascend to power and either become a dictator or new emperor. As for the Communists who eventually won out, there's already been a poll that establishes that Communism doesn't exist ITTL, so that's not going to happen.
So, without further ado, here is the poll: https://www.strawpoll.me/20959424
First, the Qing Dynasty itself was fiercely divided between reformers and reactionaries, so I'll put both of those options in. Second, there could be a Republican movement that comes to power, although that seems less likely than OTL, considering that they wouldn't have the American and French Revolutions to serve as inspiration. Third, a prominent military commander could ascend to power and either become a dictator or new emperor. As for the Communists who eventually won out, there's already been a poll that establishes that Communism doesn't exist ITTL, so that's not going to happen.
So, without further ado, here is the poll: https://www.strawpoll.me/20959424
Part 90: The Fall of the Qing
Part 90: The Fall of the Qing
One region of the world that I haven’t covered in depth all that much in this now two year old TL is China, so let’s do that, shall we?Ahh yes, China. The Middle Kingdom. One of the world’s oldest and greatest civilizations, with a history going back over 5,000 years. Throughout that span of time, numerous dynasties had risen and fallen in China, with the current dynasty being the Qing, who were of Manchurian origin and had ruled since the Mid 17th Century. However, the 19th Century had been challenging for China, as they saw increased competition from the various European powers that were expanding their reach into East and Southeast Asia, and even into China itself, acquiring several ports on the South Coast and subjecting The Middle Kingdom to humiliating treaties. This shattered the public confidence in the Qing (who were already viewed with suspicion for being Manchus rather than Han) and led to various uprisings and revolts that, while suppressed, led to the deaths of millions.
As the 19th Century turned into the 20th, it became clear that the Qing Dynasty was in a crisis. In 1898, a major attempt at reforms was initiated, which alienated much of the Qing court, including the Empress, and the reforms were quickly halted, with the empress taking effective charge of the government. Around the same time, a highly xenophobic group known as The Fists rose up, seeking to purge China of all foreign influence. The rebels soon became very widespread throughout North China. Fisters that made it into the Legation Quarter in Beijing got into conflicts and shootouts with the Western and Japanese residents of the area, which led those powers to intervene against The Fists. While initially conflicted, this unwanted foreign intervention led the Qing to support The Fists, proceeding to put the Legation Quarter under siege. A coalition of Brits, Americans, Frenchmen, Germans, Russians and Japanese landed at Tianjin, the closest port city to Beijing. After establishing a foothold at Tianjin, the coalition then marched the extra 70 miles to Beijing in order to break the siege. After about a month and a half, the coalition reached Beijing (doing a bit of pillaging along the way), breaking the siege and forcing the Qing court to flee to Xi’an. The Qing were subject to yet another humiliating treaty at the end of the war, putting one more straw on the camel’s back, which was close to breaking by this point in time.
However, while beaten and battered, the Qing Dynasty wasn’t dead, and there was still a chance that it could bounce back. The reforms that were briefly put in place before the Fist Rebellion were reinstated, although at a slower and less radical pace, including the creation of a national education system and the end to the Imperial Exams. However, in Early 1909, both the Emperor and Empress died back to back (with it being likely that the Emperor was poisoned), leading to the succession of a child to the throne. A new imperial cabinet was created, some members of which were part of the Qing Royal Family, which made it rather unpopular among the Han majority. Through all this time, groups dedicated to removing the Qing from power were growing in power and influence, especially among the Han middle class. It was only a matter of time before China were to erupt into chaos…
Well, in the spring of 1912, the Qing government announced that they were going to nationalize all local railway projects and give much of the control to foreign banks. This drew massive opposition in Southern China, which was a hotbed of anti-Qing sentiment, and the giving of control to foreigners only added to the unpopularity of the move. Protests against the proposal soon sprung up en masse, and the local governments arrested one of the main leaders, only inflaming them even more. Protesters marched on the Governer’s office demanding the release of the leader, with the protesters being met with open fire. Naturally, this didn’t go over so well with the populous, and soon much of Southern China was in revolt. The Qing, in a last ditch attempt to calm the situation, removed the governor who’d ordered the protesters to be fired upon from office, but by this point it was too late, and the Revolution of 1912 had begun.
After its beginning in the provinces of Hubei and Sichuan, the revolt spread throughout China, especially in the South. One by one, provinces declared their independence from the Qing Government in Beijing, forcing the Qing to attempt a last ditch reform effort, but by this point it was too late. The Mandate of Heaven had been completely lost, and the child emperor was forced to abdicate at the start of 1913 (in exchange for not being punished). After nearly 300 years of rule, the Qing Dynasty was no more, but there was still a lot more to come afterwards...
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Hoo boy, that took a while. I'm not an expert on Chinese history, so a lot of Wikipedia reading was needed (although things obviously weren't identical, I changed a lot of the dates). I'll get back to China soon, but I'm thinking of doing an update on South America next.
Nice to see you continuing. Many of the America timelines seem to be on hiatus: mine, PBSG, HeX, etc.