The vote right now is a 5-5 tie! I'm not gonna be voting, so it's gonna be one of you guys that decides the fate of France in this timeline.Alright, here's the second poll.
What Happens In France: Round 2
Vote Now! [King abdicates, House of Orleans takes over] [King doesn't abdicate]www.strawpoll.me
English Canada/French Carolina: A Timeline
- Thread starter Gabingston
- Start date
As mentioned previously, France is battered; so is their largest and most stable colony, Florida. With the Anglo-Americans wielding the "anti-slavery" stick, we could see them enforcing Haitian independence as a term of the peace treaty, or supporting such a movement post war. If its a peaceful revolution, the Anglo-Americans could back them post war, and we could see a stable and profitable Haiti with the white minority likely fleeing to France or Florida. That would be an interesting tidbit to include, Haiti as Britain's pet project, to prove a post slavery state can succeed.
Does French Haiti control the whole island, or is Santo Domingo around as well?
In our timeline, France abolished slavery in all of its colonies in 1848. As it colonized OTL Southern United States, that’s gonna throw a big wrench in things. I’d say when Florida is granted independence/abolished slavery, make Haiti do it at the same time.
Part 85: France After The War
Part 85: France After The War
After the Second Global War had concluded, France came out in a mess. They’d lost millions of men, Alsace and Wallonia and the faith in the status quo was shattered among many Frenchmen. Economic turmoil resulting from costly war reparations didn’t help matters either. However, there was one silver lining: The return of Terre-Bourbon. Britain decided to return the colony of Terre-Bourbon to France, as there was not much of a reason to spend money occupying it indefinitely. The population of Terre-Bourbon had grown to 610,000 by 1920 when the colony was returned to France, and immigration to the colony surged once it was returned, with the population growing further to 845,000 by 1930. While most new immigrants settled in established cities like Louisport-Tadagne and Port Champagny, smaller towns like Baie Delambre, Baie des Cochons, Cadigne and Barmarati also grew because of these new settlers. The abundant mineral deposits drew Frenchmen and Italians (especially Southern Italians) that were eager for jobs in the postwar economic crisis. In terms of agriculture, Bourbonese wine had already become famous for its quality, as the rolling hills, fertile soil and Mediterranean climate proved perfect for wine production.
Anyway, back to France proper. As I’ve mentioned in a previous update, much of the blame for the disaster of the war fell down on the King, the elderly Louis-Denis, who had ruled since 1883. Even with his advanced age and declining health, there was still pressure for him to abdicate. His only surviving male heir was his second son François (born in 1867), as his eldest son Charles had died as a child. Various political sects, both on the extreme left and the extreme right rose in popularity, and there was massive civil unrest in major French cities, including a brief occupation of the center of Paris by rebels (think this) in 1918. Louis-Denis’ health decline continued, and on the 5th of August in 1921, Louis-Denis passed away at the age of 82. François took the throne later that month at the age of 54, and promised to reacquire Wallonia and Alsace and restore France’s pride. While France may have been defeated, it was preparing for another round, and the future of Europe was still in the balance.
Oh gosh, the wheels of French Revanchism turn again. The Bourbons really want to be chucked off of their thrones, don't they?
Also, what's going on in Germany? They could be a potential British ally on the continent, since France has established themselves firmly as the Eternal Enemy.
I was actually planning on doing a update on The German States. As for the Bourbons, it likely depends on who wins the next war (if there is one). However, Britain might think that the Germans are getting too powerful, so they might actually side with France to keep the balance of power in check.
On another note:
I wonder how much of Southern India's population would become Catholic during the French colonial period. After all, there is a sizeable Catholic population in Vietnam (6-7%, higher among the diaspora), and parts of Southern India that were colonized by the Portuguese (Goa) have a sizeable Catholic population. It's possible that missionaries would convert a lot of untouchables that have nothing to lose or a sizeable amount of upper class Indians that have a lot to gain from converting. It likely wouldn't exceed 10-15%, but I'm just throwing it out there.
Christian Indian Subcontinent.
Suppose that similar to Africa, the British Raj’s inhabitants had been converted to Christianity. How would this effect the culture and geopolitical situation of this region?
www.alternatehistory.com
I think RN, it looks like France is the immediate and hostile power. A newly united Germany, yet unproven, might be viewed by the British as less of a foe. If they absolutely demolish France in a potential conflict, however, they might change their view.
Personally, I'd love to see a trend of Anglo-German friendship. It would be a nice change of pace from other timelines. Maybe German unification becomes a cause championed by the British gentry? France, I think, has too much consistent bad blood here to consider taking the British side on much of anything. If they lose another war, we could see a communist movement arise there, a sort of latter day French Revolution. Germany can also assist the British by distracting the Russians, and keeping their eyes on Europe as opposed to Asia.
Just some thoughts!
Sorry, there was a poll earlier on in the TL that said that Communism (and Fascism for that matter) would never rise to power, although that doesn't rule out some other form of authoritarianism.
Well, there were a lot of leftist movements at work besides communism; you've got options. Besides, the undercurrents and ideas have been there since the time of Cromwell; some form of these ideas (besides Communism) could very well arise.
Do you think the Germans would attempt to establish some sort of Mitteleuropa thing in Central and Eastern Europe after the Second Global War?
If the Germans are in a position to carve out a sphere of influence, I don't see why not. Russia had been battered and will be in recovery for a hot minute. Eastern Europe might fear their return. But there's also room for opposition. Poland, in particular, might ally themselves with France to stop a possible German invasion. Or we might see a German Polish Partnership to prevent attacks from Russia?
Overall, the extent of Mitteleuropa depends on how diplomatic the Germans are wanting to be.
Part 86: Mitteleuropa (RETCONNED)
Part 86: Mitteleuropa
After the Second Global War, the Germans states of Prussia and Austria-Bavaria were riding high off of the victory. Yes, millions of men had lost their lives, but that was the price to be paid for the conquest of Wallonia and Alsace-Lorraine. However, they were not directly part of either German states, but rather of states that were allied to them. So, the Germans (particularly the Prussians) figured that it would be a good idea to pursue closer cooperation and integration in Central Europe. Thus, the economic and military pact of Mitteleuropa (German for Middle Europe) was formed shortly after the war. The initial members were the two aforementioned German states, followed by Rhineland, Baltia and Estonia. Venice, concerned about revanchism from Cisalpina and Illyria, joined the pact, while Alsace-Lorraine was pro-German to begin with and joined in. Ukraine and Crimea were terrified of being reconquered by Russia, so they opted in. Carpathia, Galicia and Hungary figured that they had no reason not to join, since they were basically surrounded. Finally, Poland joined, as while they resented the Germans for taking their coastline, they considered the Russian Bear to be the bigger threat, so they reluctantly joined in.
At this point, the pact had become as much of an Anti-Russia and Anti-French alliance as much as it was an economic bloc, so naturally the French and the Russians (once they were done destroying themselves) were going to find some way to counter it. Sure, there was the existing Bourbon compact between France, Spain and Naples, and Cisalpina could be counted on as an ally. The Balkans were largely anti-German and anti-Ottoman, so they were likely to be swayed, but there was one more major power that could now be swayed: Britain.
Britain had long been a German ally (or more accurately anti-French), but they also had a role in keeping Europe’s balance of power in check. With France severely weakened and Russia in a civil war, the British were growing concerned that the Germans were going to become dominant on the continent and in the North Sea. While the British and French had long been rivals, this common threat was drawing them towards a less hostile relationship, and potentially even a partnership in case of any German aggression. Prussia and Austria-Bavaria were reveling in their victory, but in that they were making enemies, and the final act in the Concert of Europe might still be around the corner...
Britain's joining in of the Anti-Mitteleuropa pact (might I suggest the Outer Powers?) is disappointing, but understandable. After all, something similar happened in our world! I wonder if Britain and France might begin supporting an Italian unification movement as a method of antagonizing Mitteleuropa? A flashpoint with Venice or the Papal States could very well be a cause for war here, rather than some damn foolish thing in the Balkans.
How integrated is Mitteleuropa?
How integrated is Mitteleuropa?
Northern Italy (or Cisalpina) is under the House of Savoy, while Southern Italy (Naples) is under the House of Bourbon, so they're likely not going to unify. On the topic of The Papal States, I doubt either the North or South will attack the Pope, with both countries being Catholic and all, but a conflict between Cisalpina and Venice is likely, considering that Cislapina wants some land back.
As for Mitteleurope, I'm assuming it'd involve free trade/travel and mutual defense.
When it comes to free travel, do you mean no border customs? An early Schengen Area would be nice to see. In fact, depending on where the agreement is signed, it could still be called the Schengen Area (as OTL’s Schengen Area is named after Schengen, Luxembourg, site of the 1985 Schengen Agreement)!