ENGLISH ARGENTINA

wikipedia:
In 1711, the Governor of Bermuda, John Pullen, sent a letter to the minister Robert Harley, Earl of Oxford, saying that "the Rio de la Plata is the best place in the world to form a British colony."


Maitland Plan (Spanish, Plan de Maitland), refers to a plan created by Scottish Major General Thomas Maitland in 1800. The plan was titled Plan to capture Buenos Aires and Chile, and then emancipate Peru and Quito.

According to Argentine historian Felipe Pigna, José de San Martín was introduced to the plan by members of the lodge founded by Francisco de Miranda and Scottish Lord MacDuff (James Duff, the Fourth Earl of Fife).

The plan consisted in:

Seize control of Buenos Aires.
Take position in Mendoza.
Coordinate actions with an independentist Chilean army.
Cross the Andes.
Defeat the Spanish and take control of Chile.
Continue through sea and liberate Peru.

Could they actually take Argentina? WI if they achieved? Or if you prefer how do you make a POD with english taking Argentina betwen 1700 and 1815?
 
Well they did take Buenos Aires in the Nappy Wars, and lost it. But they could have held it with more effort - I think they buggered off to S Africa instead. Agh, my memory !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Well they did take Buenos Aires in the Nappy Wars, and lost it. But they could have held it with more effort - I think they buggered off to S Africa instead. Agh, my memory !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Ok, they lost it, but WI they could held it. or WI they take it in the seventies? would be Argentina the new Australia?.
What would have happened with Argentina?would be Peru the next step?
 
Ok, they lost it, but WI they could held it. or WI they take it in the seventies? would be Argentina the new Australia?.
What would have happened with Argentina?would be Peru the next step?

Sorry, what I was trying to say that it was a mixture of disinterest back in Britain, and other strategic objectives which combined to mean they lost it, plus a bit of the usual incompetence !

If the decision had been made at a political level in London then taking and holding it would not be that much different than taking and holding Trinidad, for example.

One thing to remember tho, is that 'Argentina' does not exist, and in fact took a very long time to form as a centralised country rather than a federation. Thus, taking Buenos Aires may only give you that ONE province, and if you want Entre Rios or the others then that's further military adventuring

Patagonia, beyond all this, remains the land of the Mapuche indians, and even in OTL it was the 1870s before Argentina and Chile combined, free of rivals amongst the states to the North, considered themselves able to devote their efforts to their defeat and conquest

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
in 1711 that letter indicates some interest on the part of england in the area. That would be a very interesting area for its climate, in addition to being fairly sparsely populated. I was not referring to Patagonia, I mean the River Plate
 

maverick

Banned
Unlikely...

First, I don't think that the English can do this at the time since England no longer existed...so they might need the rest of the United Kingdom...

Now, seriously...

The place is too far and away and there's little strategic value at the time...

Of course, they'd need to take Montevideo and the other ports as well, and then march all the way to Cordoba and Mendoza...ultra-catholic centers in the 18th century...

Finally, if the British take Buenos Aires in the War of Spanish Succession...wouldn't the Spanish want it back after the War of Jenkins' Ear? or what ever analogue to that war comes later?

A POD after the 1770s is unlikely...without massive, and I mean really big effort to colonize the place with Anglo-Saxon protestants...

The further back you go the most the chances increase...of course, it has to be between the 1690s and the 1720s...
 
The place is too far and away and there's little strategic value at the time...
So was Australia but the place was still used as a penal colony

Of course, they'd need to take Montevideo and the other ports as well, and then march all the way to Cordoba and Mendoza...ultra-catholic centers in the 18th century...
Then don't take the ultra-Catholic cities, at least for now. Instead partition the colony so there is a British holding and an independent country that can be conquered later.
 
So was Australia but the place was still used as a penal colony
But this time you'll have Spanish and local (heavy) oposition. It can be overcome, but the British have to plan accordingly and dedicate enough resources to it.

Then don't take the ultra-Catholic cities, at least for now. Instead partition the colony so there is a British holding and an independent country that can be conquered later.
I dunno, it seems impractical. They'll need to create infraestructure that's already there. It will also lead to further wars and in some places it will be imposible (let's say, Potosí, you can't create a new city near the mines).
 
That'd be interesting, because one can assume Argentina would develop along the lines of Aus, NZ, Canada, SA etc. with a large white immigrant community - though probably containing a large % of Spanish descent. (Perhaps a little like Francophone Canada?)

So one would assume when it achieved Dominion status and later Commonwealth independence, it would also get the Falklands Islands to keep.
 
Argentina, as well as Chile, Peru, Bolivia and perhaps Uruguay and Paraguay. The British would be going for the entire Viceroyalty of Peru (that's with a war before the 1770s so before the Viceroyalty of the River Plate was created). Of course, since the amount of land we are talking about is huge, a large amount of resources and political will is required. After that, whatever country emerges centuries later is probably not going to be named Argentina, nor will probably encompass the territory OTL Argentina emcompassed in OTL.
Butterflies?
 
Argentina, as well as Chile, Peru, Bolivia and perhaps Uruguay and Paraguay. The British would be going for the entire Viceroyalty of Peru (that's with a war before the 1770s so before the Viceroyalty of the River Plate was created). Of course, since the amount of land we are talking about is huge, a large amount of resources and political will is required. After that, whatever country emerges centuries later is probably not going to be named Argentina, nor will probably encompass the territory OTL Argentina emcompassed in OTL.
Butterflies?


the English would probably limit their goals to only carving the Plate off the VR of Peru. Asuncion's development in the aftermanth if it was successful would be interesting. At this time early 1700's its easily more important and influential than the post at the Rio de la Plata.
 
That'd be interesting, because one can assume Argentina would develop along the lines of Aus, NZ, Canada, SA etc. with a large white immigrant community - though probably containing a large % of Spanish descent. (Perhaps a little like Francophone Canada?)

So one would assume when it achieved Dominion status and later Commonwealth independence, it would also get the Falklands Islands to keep.

If the British invades Argentina and Uruguay in 1700-1815 timeline, Argentina would develop along the lines of Australia, Canada, and New Zealand with a large white immigrant community (mainly British) and billingual dominion similiar to Canada with English language is the dominant and the Spanish language is the minority. Argentina would be a ''White Dominion'' colony of the United Kingdom.

There are 3 POD's if the British invades Argentina between the 1700-1815 timeline:

If the British invades Argentina in early 18th century (inplausible), Argentina would be 90% English speaking and 10% Spanish speaking.

If the British invades Argentina in 1760's (again inplausible), Argentina would be 80% English speaking and 20% Spanish speaking.

If the British invades Argentina sucessfully in 1807, Argentina would be 70% English speaking and 30% Spanish speaking (the most plausible of the options that I've wrote).
 
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