England Free

What PODs could be suggested that would have England leave the Union at or about the present time?

That is to presume the UK exists in it present form, or with (OTL) ROI still in it.

The idea is for it to be an English decision to restore itself as (say) the Commonwealth of England.

OTL occasional polls do suggest there is some public support for an independent england. How can we make this the majority?
 
What PODs could be suggested that would have England leave the Union at or about the present time?

That is to presume the UK exists in it present form, or with (OTL) ROI still in it.

The idea is for it to be an English decision to restore itself as (say) the Commonwealth of England.

OTL occasional polls do suggest there is some public support for an independent england. How can we make this the majority?

First step ... there needs to be an English parliament in line with the Scottish and Welsh assemblies.
 
Perhaps have the monarchy identify more strongly with Scotland? That would make England feel like it isn't the centre of the Union and hence there would be at least a little more pro-independence sentiment.
 
Perhaps have the monarchy identify more strongly with Scotland? That would make England feel like it isn't the centre of the Union and hence there would be at least a little more pro-independence sentiment.

Nah, London's still the centre of the country's economy and government.

This is more likely to lead to an British republic with royalist Scotland then leaving. Not really what's being asked for.
 
What PODs could be suggested that would have England leave the Union at or about the present time?
That is to presume the UK exists in it present form, or with (OTL) ROI still in it.
The idea is for it to be an English decision to restore itself as (say) the Commonwealth of England.
OTL occasional polls do suggest there is some public support for an independent england. How can we make this the majority?

Given the nature of the Union, the English hegemony, it's more a case of England dissolving the Union rather than leaving it.

If you're having a republic formed in England after some sort of modern constitutional crisis, then I can see the new republican government immediately and unilaterally granting independence to Scotland, Wales and NI (and Gibraltar, Falklands, etc) - to make sure the old grievances don't overshadow the new settlement.

But then, depending on the nature of this crisis and transition, it might be a struggle to keep England together as one country.
 

sharlin

Banned
You could have the Cromwellian republic (read dictatorship) carry on and lead to no reformation.
 
Nah, London's still the centre of the country's economy and government.

This is more likely to lead to an British republic with royalist Scotland then leaving. Not really what's being asked for.

If the Stuart's don't get kicked out and they are massively fucking biased towards Scotland I'm sure it'll make them feel bad. And if the King has his seat in Edinburgh or wherever then he's gonna make English parliament move instead of Scots.

Ireland isn't likely to side with England over Scotland, but Wales will probably stay with England when/if it leaves.
 
If the Stuart's don't get kicked out and they are massively fucking biased towards Scotland I'm sure it'll make them feel bad. And if the King has his seat in Edinburgh or wherever then he's gonna make English parliament move instead of Scots.

Ireland isn't likely to side with England over Scotland, but Wales will probably stay with England when/if it leaves.

The Stuarts moved to London at the first opportunity, and even in the 17th Century England was richer, larger and a source of greater royal income than Scotland. Basically, there's no reason for this unless England's already going republican a la The Commonwealth and Civil War.
 
Projecting into the future, let's say Scotland votes No in the referendum (which seems highly likely), which puts the dampers on secession for a generation. Salmond is replaced by a less 'jocular' leader who focuses the SNP on getting more powers and privileges for Scotland within the Union and acting as the only real opposition to Labour in the country.

Labour wins respectably at the 2015 general election, and the Conservatives are removed completely from the Celtic fringe.

Let's be nice to Miliband and say the global economy picks up around the same time, earning Labour undeserved economic kudos. Wales get a full Parliament during this period and devo max is introduced in Scotland. Growing interest in English devolution sees only minor concessions, granting city governments more power and networking council of the big cities, primarily Labour run.

Labour wins again in 2020, with many of their losses being compensated by the continued decline of the Liberal Democrats. This causes some headaches at Central Office and the Tories undergo some soul searching. However Labour comes under attack over its unsure position to EU federation.

This decade of Labour rule, which is apparently anti-English leads to growing support for groups like the English Democrats, nothing substantial in terms of power but their vote share jumps up, taking large chunks out of the BNP and UKIP bases.

In time for 2025, influenced by growing English nationalism, a new Conservative leader promotes a platform based on ending the 'subsidising' of Wales and Scotland and granting England its own powers. This is done to great anger from Cardiff and Edinburgh by this point both back under the control of the nationalists. A crisis of sorts blooms as thousands of civil servants are laid off and budgets slashed.

Promoted by the tabloid press and genuine popular support in certain areas of England, an English Parliament is created, and a Conservative-*English Democrat coalition in charge.

Secessionist support rises once more in the regions, but this time is joined by support in England to 'dump' the Welsh and Scots who take more than they give. Labour supports takes a Unionist line but large sections of the party in Wales and Scotland are backing secession, while the economic problems of the second Miliband term is still felt, weakening their power in England.

In a fit of pique the PM calls for an English referendum earlier than the Scottish and Welsh ones, officially calling for the 'people to be heard' but by now the Tories are seen as an English party and many members, particularly younger one with little British patriotism campaign for English secession. The referendum also acts as a poll on Europe and federation as a free England will not be an EU members. Europhobia, Celtophobia and English patriotism abound.

In July 2029, England secedes from the UK, causing it to collapse as a sustainable entity within the year.

-------------

not mind blowingly realistic but I imagine sustained anti-Union feeling will eventually lead to an English back lash of some sort.
 
English voters already feel under represented and resent a perceived involvement by non English MPs (despite the SNP carefully not voting on English matters).

Sadly I fear that this could be hijacked by UKIP, just as the national flag was hijacked by the extreme right wingers for some years, and leave an England stranded outside the EU whereas it should be joining in more. All the costs and none of the influence.

One wonders how much of the UK legislation needs to done at UK level? Could a desire for English national self determination be combined in a new form of the Union whereby 'Westminster' only deals with defence, foreign affairs and the EU whilst the national governments deal with internal ones?

Taking it probably too far, could ROI see that it could influence NI more with both being represented at 'Westminster' and have a greater world influence as part of this federal Union, retaining internal self government and join in?

In a scenario where England unilaterally secedes from the Union it would leave all Crown Dependencies etc. with the Union.

It wouldn't make any difference to the Isle of Man or the 2 remaining Bailiwicks of the Duchy of Normandy as they are independent on this basis anyway and not members of the EU. Maybe we have a model there for the Duchy of Cornwall?
 
Projecting into the future, let's say Scotland votes No in the referendum (which seems highly likely), which puts the dampers on secession for a generation. Salmond is replaced by a less 'jocular' leader who focuses the SNP on getting more powers and privileges for Scotland within the Union and acting as the only real opposition to Labour in the country.

Labour wins respectably at the 2015 general election, and the Conservatives are removed completely from the Celtic fringe.

Let's be nice to Miliband and say the global economy picks up around the same time, earning Labour undeserved economic kudos. Wales get a full Parliament during this period and devo max is introduced in Scotland. Growing interest in English devolution sees only minor concessions, granting city governments more power and networking council of the big cities, primarily Labour run.

Labour wins again in 2020, with many of their losses being compensated by the continued decline of the Liberal Democrats. This causes some headaches at Central Office and the Tories undergo some soul searching. However Labour comes under attack over its unsure position to EU federation.

This decade of Labour rule, which is apparently anti-English leads to growing support for groups like the English Democrats, nothing substantial in terms of power but their vote share jumps up, taking large chunks out of the BNP and UKIP bases.

In time for 2025, influenced by growing English nationalism, a new Conservative leader promotes a platform based on ending the 'subsidising' of Wales and Scotland and granting England its own powers. This is done to great anger from Cardiff and Edinburgh by this point both back under the control of the nationalists. A crisis of sorts blooms as thousands of civil servants are laid off and budgets slashed.

Promoted by the tabloid press and genuine popular support in certain areas of England, an English Parliament is created, and a Conservative-*English Democrat coalition in charge.

Secessionist support rises once more in the regions, but this time is joined by support in England to 'dump' the Welsh and Scots who take more than they give. Labour supports takes a Unionist line but large sections of the party in Wales and Scotland are backing secession, while the economic problems of the second Miliband term is still felt, weakening their power in England.

In a fit of pique the PM calls for an English referendum earlier than the Scottish and Welsh ones, officially calling for the 'people to be heard' but by now the Tories are seen as an English party and many members, particularly younger one with little British patriotism campaign for English secession. The referendum also acts as a poll on Europe and federation as a free England will not be an EU members. Europhobia, Celtophobia and English patriotism abound.

In July 2029, England secedes from the UK, causing it to collapse as a sustainable entity within the year.

-------------

not mind blowingly realistic but I imagine sustained anti-Union feeling will eventually lead to an English back lash of some sort.

There is no way in hell nationalists will ever come to power in Wales. Plaid is a mess of a party that adopted a republican leader who can't keep her mouth shut at a time when the monarchy's popularity is at a high.
 
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