England Expects that Every Man....
- Thread starter vpsoccer
- Start date
1. Blood and fire taught the lessons of handling black powder. The new stuff may be different but it is not all that different. "No smoking in the magazine" is still good practice.
2. You will like the next section I post. (Someone seems to post and foreshadow most of the key events....)
3. Yes. It was said that an officer could not go too far wrong to sail to the sound of the guns and lay his ship alongside that of an enemy. And certainly an error, or interpretation of orders, "toward the sound of the guns" was considered much more leiniently than an error away from....
4. Nelson's ghost, (along with those of Raleigh, Hawke, Duncan, and so on) led the RN to many additional victories, often without actually fighting, as opponents thought about them even more than did the RN itself.
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England Expects Ch 2 - 6
CHAPTER 2 Part 6 -- England Expects that Every Man....
SIX
The steward had already anticipated a need for food and so a few minutes later they were having bully-beef sandwiches with tea and coffee. There was even kye for the Staff Commander, whose preference was well known to the steward.
Moore addressed the shy young turret officer, “Lieutenant Walke, on our way up here the Captain told me that you studied mathematics at Oxford – and that you sort of saw through this rate-of-fire issue without doing any actual calculations?”
“Sir, I.... Well sir.... Sir, I play with numbers in my head just for fun, like. And sometimes numbers just line up and make their case on their own, if I can say it that way. There wasn't much math to be done. The time intervals were obviously close enough to our rate of fire that we might not gain much from taking safety risks. I wondered about this when I first got assigned to the turret, sir, and when I asked Mr. MacDougall he said he had similar suspicions. We didn't need to do much on paper to confirm that for long ranges there isn't likely much to be gained, if indeed anything at all.”
“So Mr. MacDougall's precautions were not only justified – as we have all seen today – but didn't affect our fighting capability?”
“That's right, sir, well, according to our estimates,” said the young Lieutenant. “At long range there isn't any loss of salvos, even if we were firing full broadsides. Today's gunnery ranges would fit that, I'm fairly certain of it, as certain as I can be without working it all out in detail.” Talking about simple mathematical relationships and calculations he was on comfortable ground and didn't need to look to Mr. MacDougall for support.
“Good to see confidence. Thank you. Now you and the A.G.O. will repeat your calculations using today's shooting. Use every salvo. Lay them out formally, to prove the case like you would to your tutor at Oxford. You will add precise ranges from gunnery records, and make it air-tight. Any issue with that?”
“No, sir.”
Moore continued, “the navigator is a fair mathematician and will be assigned to go over your work with a fine-tooth comb. One of the other turret officers will assist him. Mr. MacDougall and the G.O. and the third turret officer will take the measurements of the blast and flash damage, and compare what it did with what it would likely have been with more charges lying around. Do that for what New Zealand would have in action, twice that, and what the rest of the BCF would have. Captain – maybe your First Lieutenant would be useful on that?” Halsey nodded. It was not really a question anyway. “We need to get this done quickly. Any issues with that?”
Mr. MacDougall actually spoke for himself and the G.O. “We can do that sirr.”
“Good. Is there anything else? The gunnery department's fully engaged. Is there anything we might need if this is to be done in the next hour? Two hours at the most? Then a couple more hours at most to finalize each report?” More nods all around. “Good then. If you have any problems, need additional manpower, anything, ask for the help you need. You'll get it.” Captain Halsey gave a large and exaggerated nod at this, making sure all saw him. “We are going to be in port tomorrow and we need this done long before that. My secretary will receive your reports and coordinate the cross-examination of each by another team. The Captain, Commander Tomkins, and the Paymaster will please remain to discuss another issue. Carry on.”
As soon as they had left, Captain Halsey turned to the Paymaster. “Would you please give us a couple of minutes with the Admiral.”
“Aye, Sir,” he said as he moved to wait outside.
Halsey spoke immediately. “Sir, you said before to speak freely. Now I have to say that this is all well and good, and I agree with every step. But it will go to the Rear Admiral's staff, the BCF staff, and get mired and stuck and die a thousand cuts. Anything that might see the light of day will not be recognizable.”
Commander Tomkins, Moore's 'right hand man,' interjected to push the point. “Sir, I've worked in fleet staffs as they have grown larger, and Captain Halsey is right. If it makes anyone look bad it will go nowhere.”
“Gentlemen, I do know that. You both know I expect to be relieved, so I can act like a flag officer and not worry about blotting my own or anyone else's copybook – except for those who might be deserving. I do have an idea and that's where the Paymaster will be a major asset. I can explain to you first if you wish, but if he's a trustworthy man we can go over it together. Then while Captain Halsey runs his ship, the rest of us have a long day, and maybe night, ahead of us.” They both nodded their agreement, so Moore stuck his head out the door: “Thank you for waiting. Please come in.”
Moore addressed the Paymaster: “You aren't involved in the executive operation of the ship but I presume you have heard by now about the orders received this morning, and what we did?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Questions?”
“No, sir.”
“You may as well know that I expect to be relieved for my actions – I didn't quite do exactly as I was told, and The Andrew doesn't like that. Not one bit. But I have little to lose by making good use of my final days.” Moore ignored the look of surprise – after all they had merely done their duty – and gave a further nod to confirm what he had said. Then he smiled again.
With all they had seen and done this day, and with the strain Moore had clearly felt, it was a shock for the officers to see him smile, a genuine smile. “Gentlemen, you all know how backroom administration can drown a sailor's paperwork as surely as the sea can drown the sailor. But I have an idea, the bones of a plan, to cut that Gordian Knot. I need all of you to keep the ends in mind and speak up if you see a problem, or something we can do better, or anything else. Now, here is what we are going to do....”
SIX
The steward had already anticipated a need for food and so a few minutes later they were having bully-beef sandwiches with tea and coffee. There was even kye for the Staff Commander, whose preference was well known to the steward.
Moore addressed the shy young turret officer, “Lieutenant Walke, on our way up here the Captain told me that you studied mathematics at Oxford – and that you sort of saw through this rate-of-fire issue without doing any actual calculations?”
“Sir, I.... Well sir.... Sir, I play with numbers in my head just for fun, like. And sometimes numbers just line up and make their case on their own, if I can say it that way. There wasn't much math to be done. The time intervals were obviously close enough to our rate of fire that we might not gain much from taking safety risks. I wondered about this when I first got assigned to the turret, sir, and when I asked Mr. MacDougall he said he had similar suspicions. We didn't need to do much on paper to confirm that for long ranges there isn't likely much to be gained, if indeed anything at all.”
“So Mr. MacDougall's precautions were not only justified – as we have all seen today – but didn't affect our fighting capability?”
“That's right, sir, well, according to our estimates,” said the young Lieutenant. “At long range there isn't any loss of salvos, even if we were firing full broadsides. Today's gunnery ranges would fit that, I'm fairly certain of it, as certain as I can be without working it all out in detail.” Talking about simple mathematical relationships and calculations he was on comfortable ground and didn't need to look to Mr. MacDougall for support.
“Good to see confidence. Thank you. Now you and the A.G.O. will repeat your calculations using today's shooting. Use every salvo. Lay them out formally, to prove the case like you would to your tutor at Oxford. You will add precise ranges from gunnery records, and make it air-tight. Any issue with that?”
“No, sir.”
Moore continued, “the navigator is a fair mathematician and will be assigned to go over your work with a fine-tooth comb. One of the other turret officers will assist him. Mr. MacDougall and the G.O. and the third turret officer will take the measurements of the blast and flash damage, and compare what it did with what it would likely have been with more charges lying around. Do that for what New Zealand would have in action, twice that, and what the rest of the BCF would have. Captain – maybe your First Lieutenant would be useful on that?” Halsey nodded. It was not really a question anyway. “We need to get this done quickly. Any issues with that?”
Mr. MacDougall actually spoke for himself and the G.O. “We can do that sirr.”
“Good. Is there anything else? The gunnery department's fully engaged. Is there anything we might need if this is to be done in the next hour? Two hours at the most? Then a couple more hours at most to finalize each report?” More nods all around. “Good then. If you have any problems, need additional manpower, anything, ask for the help you need. You'll get it.” Captain Halsey gave a large and exaggerated nod at this, making sure all saw him. “We are going to be in port tomorrow and we need this done long before that. My secretary will receive your reports and coordinate the cross-examination of each by another team. The Captain, Commander Tomkins, and the Paymaster will please remain to discuss another issue. Carry on.”
As soon as they had left, Captain Halsey turned to the Paymaster. “Would you please give us a couple of minutes with the Admiral.”
“Aye, Sir,” he said as he moved to wait outside.
Halsey spoke immediately. “Sir, you said before to speak freely. Now I have to say that this is all well and good, and I agree with every step. But it will go to the Rear Admiral's staff, the BCF staff, and get mired and stuck and die a thousand cuts. Anything that might see the light of day will not be recognizable.”
Commander Tomkins, Moore's 'right hand man,' interjected to push the point. “Sir, I've worked in fleet staffs as they have grown larger, and Captain Halsey is right. If it makes anyone look bad it will go nowhere.”
“Gentlemen, I do know that. You both know I expect to be relieved, so I can act like a flag officer and not worry about blotting my own or anyone else's copybook – except for those who might be deserving. I do have an idea and that's where the Paymaster will be a major asset. I can explain to you first if you wish, but if he's a trustworthy man we can go over it together. Then while Captain Halsey runs his ship, the rest of us have a long day, and maybe night, ahead of us.” They both nodded their agreement, so Moore stuck his head out the door: “Thank you for waiting. Please come in.”
Moore addressed the Paymaster: “You aren't involved in the executive operation of the ship but I presume you have heard by now about the orders received this morning, and what we did?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Questions?”
“No, sir.”
“You may as well know that I expect to be relieved for my actions – I didn't quite do exactly as I was told, and The Andrew doesn't like that. Not one bit. But I have little to lose by making good use of my final days.” Moore ignored the look of surprise – after all they had merely done their duty – and gave a further nod to confirm what he had said. Then he smiled again.
With all they had seen and done this day, and with the strain Moore had clearly felt, it was a shock for the officers to see him smile, a genuine smile. “Gentlemen, you all know how backroom administration can drown a sailor's paperwork as surely as the sea can drown the sailor. But I have an idea, the bones of a plan, to cut that Gordian Knot. I need all of you to keep the ends in mind and speak up if you see a problem, or something we can do better, or anything else. Now, here is what we are going to do....”
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Have to agree with point number 3, enthusiastically. Certainly, the basic principle the Royal Navy was built on, and a prime reason for its long lasting greatness.
the famous quote is:- 'It takes three years to build a ship, three hundred years to build a tradition"
Beyond the general traditions of the RN, and the attitude toward taking action, I was thinking of Nelson (ABC* was still 25 years in the future):
“No Captain can do very wrong if he places his ship alongside that of an Enemy.”
This was in the note Nelson sent to his captains on the eve of Trafalgar, outlining his plan to divide the fleet into squadrons and be able to direct ships against any part of the enemy’s line. But it was certainly part of his thinking and well explained to his captains over the previous months and years of blockade duty.
*Andrew Browne Cunningham
“No Captain can do very wrong if he places his ship alongside that of an Enemy.”
This was in the note Nelson sent to his captains on the eve of Trafalgar, outlining his plan to divide the fleet into squadrons and be able to direct ships against any part of the enemy’s line. But it was certainly part of his thinking and well explained to his captains over the previous months and years of blockade duty.
*Andrew Browne Cunningham
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Excellent updates as always. If I recall the changes to the ammunition handling policy was never anything official as it broke many of the safety rules the RN had at the time (such as they were). As such they were more a 'suggestion' by Beatty and ideas/wishes, not an actual order because I think Jellico would have had his guts for garters if he'd found out about it.
So why not just write Jellico about it in Moore's capacity as one of his subordinate squadron commanders after all the battlecruiser force is still part of the Grand Fleet. Or He could write Jellico about it after being relieved as he thinks he will be in order to avoid any apperance of insubordination
I don't frequent post-1900 very much, so only just found this TL. I'm very glad I did, as I'm particularly fond of subtle naval PoDs with interesting first/second/third-order effects (butterflies, in AH parlance). I can't predict what's most likely to happen to Moore as I don't know much (anything!) about the personality links/conflicts at the time, but certainly general RN tradition over the centuries was that engaging the enemy more closely than ordered was a good thing. Many of its most famous victories had been won by pressing home very slim advantages or even continuing against technically bad odds, whilst all the officers will have learned of the fate of Admiral John Byng.
'Many things might go wrong with an attack on the enemy, but the only fatal error was not to risk it. [...] [the RN gained] a culture of aggressive determination [...] which [...] gave them a [...] psychological ascendancy. [...] British officers encountered opponents who expected to be attacked, and more than half expected to be beaten, so that they went into action with an invisible disadvantage'
So I think Moore might be okay, though it's up to the author, of course.
Agreed - indeed N.A.M. Rodger (famous naval historian) wrote about this in The Command of the Ocean: A Naval History of Britain, Volume 2, 1649–1815 (start of Chapter 18, after the execution of Adm Byng):
'Many things might go wrong with an attack on the enemy, but the only fatal error was not to risk it. [...] [the RN gained] a culture of aggressive determination [...] which [...] gave them a [...] psychological ascendancy. [...] British officers encountered opponents who expected to be attacked, and more than half expected to be beaten, so that they went into action with an invisible disadvantage'
So I think Moore might be okay, though it's up to the author, of course.
Nice post, including the bits I snipped.
This is what rattled through Moore's mind in the early stages - even as he remembered the intense focus on obeying orders without question (and of spit and polish to the sometimes exclusion of seamanship) that characterised the Victorian RN to the point of silliness. He had to reconcile this inner conflict, then act as he thought right.
The RN of the era was so large (not just that it was dominant) that enough really good seamen and leaders could be found among those who also fit the highly-polished expectations by which junior officers were judged and the obedience cult. A smaller navy could not have done it, and would have suffered.
Yes, Moore might be OK. Of course that might not help if Beatty has a chance to get his own man into the post - Moore had been laid on him by the Admiralty, and Moore knew it. I have tried to keep the characters close to what I know of them. In Moore's case that is not much at all, so I have made him what you find here.
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There is a line in Tom Clancy's book "SUBMARINE" that discusses the difference between the US and UK training of commanders of submarine. I am paraphrasing here because I don't have the book in front of me but the gist is" The US training is good and everyone respects them and fears them, but the graduates of the HMS Perisher course, they scare people."
And we've actually had people on other threads ask why Warburton-Lee attacked at Narvik, and suggest that his decision was foolish and he should have waited or even declined to engage!
The basic assessment of all Royal Navy Captains is that they have the aggressive instincts of a Wolverine with a toothache.
"If you do not know the size, strength and intent of your enemy, then attack, and you will surely find out"
1. They might be surprised to learn that Warburton-Lee was going in with 4 ships, and was happy to have HMS Hostile rejoin his flotilla after having been detached with a cruiser, (Penelope or Aurora, whichever it was that was in the area at the time). Of course he had a report that it was only 6 DDs and a submarine, so attacking with 4 was enough, by RN standards.
2. In a thread on another board about the Philippines declaring war on Canada (over trash shipped to them, labelled as recycling materials) I posted the following with, a reference to the wolverine - though I presume even they are troubled by the blackflies.
But if they do invade we will have busy beaver building defensive works, while moose and caribou in large numbers harass them and chase them into our chosen bits of boreal forest (blackfly nurseries). They may feel that they are experienced in dealing with their tropical mosquitoes, but the blackfly is the apex predator of the north and will pick their bones even while they still live. Then we send in the wolverines under cover of darkness. If there are any left alive by morning, we will have had time to bring in the stolid muskoxen and they will simply walk all over any surviving invaders.
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In fairness if it had been just six destroyers he would have won as five of them were at anchor in the port and thus helpless.1. They might be surprised to learn that Warburton-Lee was going in with 4 ships, and was happy to have HMS Hostile rejoin after having been detached with a cruiser, (HMS Penelope or HMS Aurora, whichever it was that was there at the time). Of course he had a report that it was only 6 DDs and a submarine, so attacking with 4 was enough.
2. I will be back in a few minutes to paste in a note I wrote elsewhere which incorporated wolverines....
England Expects Ch 2 - 7
CHAPTER 2 Part 7 -- England Expects that Every Man....
SEVEN
In his cabin Moore addressed his two staff officers. “Gentlemen, you know what I think about all this, and know what I plan to do. I will try my best to shield you from any consequences. Your careers will not end. I know Captain Halsey thinks well of you both. Worst case, a few old colleagues in high places will do me a favour and give you useful jobs, But for now I am not done, so let's review.
“We will be berthed in a few hours. Admiral Jellicoe is coming in behind us. I have a signal that Indomitable will be towing Lion in sometime late today, but Jellicoe is coming independently with Iron Duke to meet with us, see the damage with his own eyes, greet us warmly, etc. etc. He should be in Rosyth just a few hours after we get in. The rest of the Grand Fleet will see Lion back safely, then go home to Scapa. We don't care where the Fleet goes, I have to meet with Jellicoe. And I cannot just go and wait in line while others tell their stories.” At this last comment, Moore smiled. He was feeling oddly relaxed, perhaps because he had snatched only a few short bits of sleep since the day before, and was by this time exhausted.
“As we discussed, previous experience tells us we can expect Admiral Beatty to be busy for a few hours before he will call for me and the various Captains to meet with him. I need to use that gap in time.
“I need to know when and where I can see Jellicoe. And I need to get in to see him as soon as possible. That will be your main job. Commander, I believe you have contacts in the base organization, and Flags you have the flag lieutenants' back-stairs channels. Find out when and where he arrives, and get me the first possible appointment, or better yet the first opportunity to just knock on his door. That will be easier if he comes ashore, but if it is aboard Iron Duke then so be it. My fall from grace might be for nought if I don't have a chance to explain myself to Jellicoe, and the sooner the better. You have my, our, technical reports for distribution, but I have to explain myself to him.”
“Sir, you mean you need to see him before Admiral Beatty does.”
“Yes, Commander, I do. I am sure that Beatty will be wanting to lash me to an anchor and I at least want the chance to pick my own anchor before they toss me into a hundred fathoms.”
“Very good sir, I will check on arrangements. The new dockyard Admiral's chief of staff is an old shipmate. Flags can also find out about his arrangements, right?”
“Aye sir, flag lieutenants keep the schedules,” Flags replied with a tight smile. “Just in case of surprises, we'll both need permission to be ashore – maybe in writing in case of problems with sentries and moving around?”
“Good thought. I'll draught the orders as soon as we are finished here, and include something about visiting other vessels, too, just in case. Now – the reports are the key to ultimately having an impact. We will observe niceties. Chain of command first, so Admiral Beatty first. Flags, can you do that – but maybe in such a way that...that it's not quite on top of the pile to be read? Not lost, just not seen before I can see Jellicoe?”
“Yes, sir,” he replied with a smile. “I know just how to do it. And if the report on the actual action is higher up the pile, then the rest will be delayed further.”
“Very good. After that, copies of the gunnery reports into the courier stream. For the Admiralty: to the Third Sea Lord, Rear Admiral Tudor;* and to the Director of Naval Ordnance and Torpedoes, Captain Singer; and also to HMS Excellent. Then to Jellicoe, and...who has the post...the Fleet Gunnery Officer? Find out, will you please. Those should all get out as soon as possible. I will also take two copies of everything to Jellicoe myself. It is fortunate that New Zealand's Paymaster had several typists who could spend most of the night to make these additional copies for us.
“So that leaves: my thanks to you, gentlemen.” He flashed a tired and fleeting smile, “thank you for your confidence.”
Both stood to leave and then the Commander, followed by the Flag Lieutenant, stepped forward and offered his hand. Moore accepted gratefully. “Thank you for your support. And now I have your orders and a few personal notes to write. Then maybe I can even, as the lads say, 'catch some kip.'”
A few hours later, Moore was ready to go ashore and went to the bridge to take his leave of Captain Halsey. “Lionel, thank you for all you have done.” He held up his hand and smiled, “No, there's no more to be said. I have a mission and a semi-appointment. I just thought you should see this. It's a bit I copied out of the BCF Orders. Most of us didn't really read them in detail. I did.” He looked Halsey directly in the eyes as he was reaching inside his jacket. He took out piece of paper that had been folded there since the day before, smiled humourlessly as he handed it over, then turned and disappeared down the ladder.
Captain Lionel Halsey read the short paragraph and turned to lean on the outboard railing. “Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.”
== ==
*OTL Tudor was 3SL after Moore and before Halsey.
SEVEN
In his cabin Moore addressed his two staff officers. “Gentlemen, you know what I think about all this, and know what I plan to do. I will try my best to shield you from any consequences. Your careers will not end. I know Captain Halsey thinks well of you both. Worst case, a few old colleagues in high places will do me a favour and give you useful jobs, But for now I am not done, so let's review.
“We will be berthed in a few hours. Admiral Jellicoe is coming in behind us. I have a signal that Indomitable will be towing Lion in sometime late today, but Jellicoe is coming independently with Iron Duke to meet with us, see the damage with his own eyes, greet us warmly, etc. etc. He should be in Rosyth just a few hours after we get in. The rest of the Grand Fleet will see Lion back safely, then go home to Scapa. We don't care where the Fleet goes, I have to meet with Jellicoe. And I cannot just go and wait in line while others tell their stories.” At this last comment, Moore smiled. He was feeling oddly relaxed, perhaps because he had snatched only a few short bits of sleep since the day before, and was by this time exhausted.
“As we discussed, previous experience tells us we can expect Admiral Beatty to be busy for a few hours before he will call for me and the various Captains to meet with him. I need to use that gap in time.
“I need to know when and where I can see Jellicoe. And I need to get in to see him as soon as possible. That will be your main job. Commander, I believe you have contacts in the base organization, and Flags you have the flag lieutenants' back-stairs channels. Find out when and where he arrives, and get me the first possible appointment, or better yet the first opportunity to just knock on his door. That will be easier if he comes ashore, but if it is aboard Iron Duke then so be it. My fall from grace might be for nought if I don't have a chance to explain myself to Jellicoe, and the sooner the better. You have my, our, technical reports for distribution, but I have to explain myself to him.”
“Sir, you mean you need to see him before Admiral Beatty does.”
“Yes, Commander, I do. I am sure that Beatty will be wanting to lash me to an anchor and I at least want the chance to pick my own anchor before they toss me into a hundred fathoms.”
“Very good sir, I will check on arrangements. The new dockyard Admiral's chief of staff is an old shipmate. Flags can also find out about his arrangements, right?”
“Aye sir, flag lieutenants keep the schedules,” Flags replied with a tight smile. “Just in case of surprises, we'll both need permission to be ashore – maybe in writing in case of problems with sentries and moving around?”
“Good thought. I'll draught the orders as soon as we are finished here, and include something about visiting other vessels, too, just in case. Now – the reports are the key to ultimately having an impact. We will observe niceties. Chain of command first, so Admiral Beatty first. Flags, can you do that – but maybe in such a way that...that it's not quite on top of the pile to be read? Not lost, just not seen before I can see Jellicoe?”
“Yes, sir,” he replied with a smile. “I know just how to do it. And if the report on the actual action is higher up the pile, then the rest will be delayed further.”
“Very good. After that, copies of the gunnery reports into the courier stream. For the Admiralty: to the Third Sea Lord, Rear Admiral Tudor;* and to the Director of Naval Ordnance and Torpedoes, Captain Singer; and also to HMS Excellent. Then to Jellicoe, and...who has the post...the Fleet Gunnery Officer? Find out, will you please. Those should all get out as soon as possible. I will also take two copies of everything to Jellicoe myself. It is fortunate that New Zealand's Paymaster had several typists who could spend most of the night to make these additional copies for us.
“So that leaves: my thanks to you, gentlemen.” He flashed a tired and fleeting smile, “thank you for your confidence.”
Both stood to leave and then the Commander, followed by the Flag Lieutenant, stepped forward and offered his hand. Moore accepted gratefully. “Thank you for your support. And now I have your orders and a few personal notes to write. Then maybe I can even, as the lads say, 'catch some kip.'”
A few hours later, Moore was ready to go ashore and went to the bridge to take his leave of Captain Halsey. “Lionel, thank you for all you have done.” He held up his hand and smiled, “No, there's no more to be said. I have a mission and a semi-appointment. I just thought you should see this. It's a bit I copied out of the BCF Orders. Most of us didn't really read them in detail. I did.” He looked Halsey directly in the eyes as he was reaching inside his jacket. He took out piece of paper that had been folded there since the day before, smiled humourlessly as he handed it over, then turned and disappeared down the ladder.
Captain Lionel Halsey read the short paragraph and turned to lean on the outboard railing. “Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.”
== ==
*OTL Tudor was 3SL after Moore and before Halsey.
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Well that's quite the cliffhanger.
If it was something that vindicated Moore (a general instruction to just close in and engage for instance) then Moore wouldn't be so convinced he'd be sacked. So I'm guessing it's something that damns Beatty, even if they were just old orders that Beatty neglected to read properly and just sent out without thinking it's still Betty's fault.
The meeting with Jellicoe just got even more high stakes, Moore could at least drag Beatty down with him if things go badly.
That said I still think he's being a bit too pessimistic, it may be a bit awkward discussing the messages but the overall result was acceptable and his actions were in line with the traditions of the Navy.
If it was something that vindicated Moore (a general instruction to just close in and engage for instance) then Moore wouldn't be so convinced he'd be sacked. So I'm guessing it's something that damns Beatty, even if they were just old orders that Beatty neglected to read properly and just sent out without thinking it's still Betty's fault.
The meeting with Jellicoe just got even more high stakes, Moore could at least drag Beatty down with him if things go badly.
That said I still think he's being a bit too pessimistic, it may be a bit awkward discussing the messages but the overall result was acceptable and his actions were in line with the traditions of the Navy.
Don't forget that Beatty was the darling of the British press at the time, the man was basically a floating MacArthur, endlessly aggressive in how he wanted to fight his battles, but not actually that good an Admiral. He got the job because he was aggressive and driven and made all the right friends. Moore is doing the right thing here by having all the orders done in duplicate or triplicate so that no Admiralty goon can 'loose' them in the Admiralty's beauracracy. By giving them directly to Jellico, who's Beatty's boss (no matter how much he didn't really like it and very much viewed the BCF as an utterly independent comand, under his control and his control only.)
Jellico was a very different Admiral, he wasn't a big brash personality like Beatty, he was calm, quiet, collected. And exceptionally intelligent. He'd been part of Fisher's 'Fish Pond' pre-war and pretty much had been groomed for the role he was in by Fisher and co. And Fisher's still First Lord. Beatty might have Churchill's ear, but Jellico here has the full throated roaring broadside at his back that is Fisher.
Jellico was a very different Admiral, he wasn't a big brash personality like Beatty, he was calm, quiet, collected. And exceptionally intelligent. He'd been part of Fisher's 'Fish Pond' pre-war and pretty much had been groomed for the role he was in by Fisher and co. And Fisher's still First Lord. Beatty might have Churchill's ear, but Jellico here has the full throated roaring broadside at his back that is Fisher.
And I will preface this by saying that Beatty wasn't incompetent. The man had a pretty decent sense for battles, but he was let down by his rather hands off leadership style. His style was "Follow me!" ???? ???? PROFIT! and he seems to think that everyone else thought like him. This can be shown at Jutland where beforehand he didn't speak to Evans Thomas, Commander of the 5th Battle Squadron and Thomas, more use to Jellico's very tightly controlled style of leadership was basically left to his own ends.
Beatty's flags officer (the chap who sent signals) shouldn't have had the job, but he was a friend of the Admiral so there was no chance of him getting sacked despite many failings before Jutland (such as the botched signalling at OTL's Dogger Bank, and the confused signals sent at Heogliand Bligh) plus his over reliance on flag signals which can be somewhat subjective made things even worse (moreso with all the smoke kicked up by warships of this era with all the BC's being coal burners).
His changes to the ammunition handling procedures came about because of Dogger Bank. The BCF didn't have a gunnery range to practice at and had to be kept pretty much at Condition 2 with being ready to sail all the time. So they couldn't get away to practice. And Beatty knew his gunnery wasn't very good. Hence his idea that a greater volume of fire would counter any accuracy. Basically, fling enough shit and some will stick. In this case he's trying to make as many 12 and 13.5-inch shells stick.
And before Jutland there hadn't been any catasrophies on the scale of the BC's blowing up. I think the closes thing they had was an accident aboard the battleship Benbow in the late 1800's, where during firing her gun burst and a charge caught on fire. I don't think he could have forseen the disastrous consequences of his 'suggestions' re storing shells/propellant in the turrets.
Beatty was not a BAD Admiral, he wasn't incompetent or a coward, he trusted the wrong people and made some rather bad decisions that at the time were quite rational, but obviously disastrous with explosive hindsight. If he was a bad Admiral, he'd not have gotten where he was.
Beatty's flags officer (the chap who sent signals) shouldn't have had the job, but he was a friend of the Admiral so there was no chance of him getting sacked despite many failings before Jutland (such as the botched signalling at OTL's Dogger Bank, and the confused signals sent at Heogliand Bligh) plus his over reliance on flag signals which can be somewhat subjective made things even worse (moreso with all the smoke kicked up by warships of this era with all the BC's being coal burners).
His changes to the ammunition handling procedures came about because of Dogger Bank. The BCF didn't have a gunnery range to practice at and had to be kept pretty much at Condition 2 with being ready to sail all the time. So they couldn't get away to practice. And Beatty knew his gunnery wasn't very good. Hence his idea that a greater volume of fire would counter any accuracy. Basically, fling enough shit and some will stick. In this case he's trying to make as many 12 and 13.5-inch shells stick.
And before Jutland there hadn't been any catasrophies on the scale of the BC's blowing up. I think the closes thing they had was an accident aboard the battleship Benbow in the late 1800's, where during firing her gun burst and a charge caught on fire. I don't think he could have forseen the disastrous consequences of his 'suggestions' re storing shells/propellant in the turrets.
Beatty was not a BAD Admiral, he wasn't incompetent or a coward, he trusted the wrong people and made some rather bad decisions that at the time were quite rational, but obviously disastrous with explosive hindsight. If he was a bad Admiral, he'd not have gotten where he was.
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True . Beatty wasn't a bad Admiral. He just was nowhere near as good as he thought he was. All too often his ego triumphed over his commonsense. Just like MacArthur. Hence the oft repeated comparisons between them . Regards.