What you really need in this group is an Historian, who can show historically how effective convoys were in the past. Of all the worlds navies the one with the most experience of organising trans oceanic trade in time of war, was the RN. In the French and Napoleonic wars for the best part of 25 years convoys were a regular feature of the naval war. Unfortunately after one hundred years of the 'Pax Britanica" the cooperate memory of the RN had lost the truth of the fundamental success of convoys in protecting trade. In WW1 submarines are a new menace and at the time were supposed to obey 'Cruiser Rules' this in it's self makes a defended target a no go for a raider. When unrestricted submarine warfare becomes the norm then the advantage of the convoy system becomes less obvious and will need a strong advocacy to successfully introduce.
England Expects More....
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Coulsdon Eagle
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OTL the German light cruiser fleet by 2 June 1916 had been gutted by war losses, while the armoured cruisers had been sunk or retired. At that stage most German destroyers were simply larger torpedo boats so not the best for sinking small fry like trawlers, and pretty useless in shooting up Britain's holiday destinations.
They don't have to be good at it, they just have to be capable of doing it. Which they are. After all, how well armed are Britain's holiday destinations? And just how well armoured are British fishing boats in WW1? The main objective would be propaganda & the enemy morale, with the aim of encouraging the RN to use their own destroyers in non-sub-hunting roles. Or to lure RN units into minefields.
Convoys have their problems too and historically it took a while for the admiralty to accept that the obvious cure wasn't worse than the disease.
I wonder if they can address these problems somehow.
Or if they will come up with some other sollution to the submarine menace.
Not exactly true ..
the Admiralty was convoying high-value ships like troopers from Day 1 of WW1
What they got wrong in the UB war of 1915-1916 was simple mathematics -
both the actual volume of trade i.e the number of ships needing ocean escort
and the stated assumption that in convoy you would still need a separate escort for each merchantman
(despite ample historical examples of hundred ship convoys with 4 or 6 escorts
and the fact that their own trooper convoys did not have this ratio and worked well)
Aside: how much of those "honest mistakes" were deliberate smokescreens to protect the "professional prejudices" of the admirals for fleet action and the offensive is IMHO debatable .. and may provide grist for our gentle author's mill
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Coulsdon Eagle
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Hartlepool (or, then, the Hartlepools) had coastal defence batteries. Hipper's battlecruisers were within their range & took some damage (Blucher had two secondary guns disabled & reportedly hid behind the lighthouse). Destroyers will have to come a lot closer with 4" not 11" guns. After the raids in late 1914 more guns were installed in east coast locations, along with the odd pre-dreadnought as harbour guard (as at Hull in 1915). The RN also laid defensive minefields so that weapon works both ways.
Trawlers a different kettle of fish (D'oh!). But there was an increasing number of armed trawlers equipped with guns up to 12-pdr. In a straight fight my money would be on the more experienced and trained lads of the Kriegsmarine, but have you considered why Scheer did not attack this apparently easy target, with his destroyers sitting in the Bight with time on their hands and no HSF to escort out into the North Sea?
I seem to remember reading somewhere that this was based on the assumption that being in a convoy made you easier to find and therefore more likely to be attacked, whereas one ship on the ocean on its own was more difficult to find. If you don't know much about how submarines work and therefore don't know the reason why being in a convoy (even an un-escorted one!) is good, then it does seem like a reasonable argument, even 'obvious'. Of course, as soon as you do learn just a little about how submarines work, if you don't change your mind then that's a different matter!
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
Another reason was that you might be hanging around in ports waiting for the next convoy to form up. Having an idle ship cost owners money!
For the improved harbour defenses in the east of the UK, how capable were they in rapid night engagements? No radar, just search lights, so one fast firing run, at night, combined with a mine laying operation further out from the port could be effective, assuming that they could safely penetrate the British defensive minefields, of course.
As for raiding the fishing fleets, they are a prime target for the Kaiserliche Marine, as I'm sure both sides are aware of. Thus both sides are equally well aware of their potential as bait for light units. However, from the point of view of a navy that can no longer engage the RN heavy units and hope to survive, this leaves using the light forces to conduct commerce raiding in order to deprive the British homelands of external resources including food. True, even your light forces are outnumbered, but they are your only available naval weapons left and the British are strangling your homeland with theirs.
This brings into the fore the reasons Sheer didn't move to attack these targets:
1) He had orders not to risk the fleet unless he stood a greater than average chance of success;
2) He had to conserve what resources he had left due to the drain on said resources posed by the the land war;
3) He had to protect his own coastline, ports & fishing fleets from British raids;
4) He had to consider the morale of his surface fleet personnel (though history shows he didn't give it too much thought until he ordered them to sortie in 1918 & they mutinied).
Of these, the first two are the most important. As for the third, well, that's what defensive minefields are for. And the fourth? Sitting around while watching everyone around you go off to the front, or slowly starve, while accusing you of not doing anything isn't all that good for your morale either. Ask the RN, they had the same criticisms leveled at them during the war.
I'm not saying using his DD's & other light forces, in conjunction with the u-boats, would be a successful strategy, just that it is currently the only real offensive option left for Sheer & that doing so would strengthen the British Admiralty's reluctance to release DD's for convoy protection
Thank you. I was reading as you posted so fixed it days ago. Funny how these thing happen in the last sentence you edit before posting....
They will pull in anything they can think of....
Yes. We recognize this today. But what can/will they see?
So the importance of phrasing, whether sloppy, precise, or precise about the wrong thing, may be important. So maybe it all comes down to the junior officer who actually pens the first draft for approval?Bearing in mind the comments above, it feels like the story hinges on quite how the Admiral phrases his orders and how Smithy and the group interpret those orders.
An instruction to 'protect trade from the U-boat menace' is very similar to 'How do we combat the U-boats' but would yield very different results. The OTL responses leaned heavily to the latter until things got serious, so I suspect the former as the Admiralty presumably know they have several groups already looking at the offensive side. Plus I think that approach has more story potential in it.
AND:
Thanks for all the comments. I don't know why I chose these for responses, others cover similar ground.
And there are enough bits there to keep this hunt for a solution going around in circles forever!
There was never a full wrap up of Jutland losses. (Think about it - I would have had to go through by squadron and how they interacted with various HSF units in the night to come up with a logical array of losses.... Too much work!) The report to King George covers it, although I did engage in a bit of followup discussion later, against my better judgement, that adds some detail. (Never again!) The fact was and is that +/- 1-2 units here and there doesn't matter anyplace except maybe battlecruisers. Even there, it's not a real big deal whether all 5 1SG were sunk or only 4 (with the last one beaten into scrap). The overall outcome is the same, as are the implications for the war.
As for our story, dare I say for our 'would-be heroes,' there is much to be discovered and it will be boring boardrooms and backrooms. There will be no big ships blasting away at the far distant foe, no cutting-out parties with cutlass and boarding axe. The relentless default: aggressive* stance of the RN will of course continue to haunt them. But they have a story.
EDIT: You can see Ch1-4 where Capt. Green basically states the general RN view:
“We'd give up a destroyer to sink each U-boat, if necessary, but before that we have to find the bloody things."
"...as soon as they find a senior admiral who believes he has a way to tackle the U-boats and wipe them from the seas."
"We need those U-boats stopped.”
And rather than discuss further, to no good purpose, I can say that I expect the next piece to be ready in a day or so.
== ==
* I think we had a short discussion of this in England Expects that Every Man. https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...ts-that-every-man.467923/page-4#post-19047227
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England Expects More.... CH 2-2
CHAPTER 2 Part 2: England Expects More....
TWO
The door opened and PO MacPherson stepped through and held it as Vice Admiral Sir Archibald Gordon Moore stepped slowly forward. All jumped to their feet, and on recognizing that it really was Moore standing at the head of the table, all stood a bit straighter. There were smiles all around.
“Thank you, gentlemen. Please be seated.” His flag lieutenant slipped unobtrusively into a corner as CPO Davies pulled the chair off to the side.
“Commander Torrance Smythe – Smithy – has by now given you the essence of your task. My job will be to help, to guide, and to protect you as you get down to work, as you ask questions and test solutions. My job will be to open doors for you. If you need to see anyone about anything, ask any question, I can open that door.
“Smithy will be in day-to-day command, and for formal purposes I shall be the commanding officer, and you may use my name, if necessary, when requesting information or help of any kind. We don't have a name, but I suppose you could say you are part of my staff. Administration will be from HM Dockyard, but the chain of command will be that I report directly to their Lordships. I have no other assignment or command. You are not just one of many responsibilities – this will be my sole focus. The U-boat menace is critical for the United Kingdom and the Empire.
“Admiral Jackson was rather terse, he said he doesn't want lengthy written orders distracting us from getting on with the job. And the job is simple: do whatever it takes. To quote the written orders: “Determine means by which the RN or other forces can sweep enemy submarines from critical sea lanes in order that merchant ships can come and go from United Kingdom ports in safety.” We can coordinate with others, whether RN or scientists, seamen of any kind. Druids for all anyone cares. Find out what they know, and what they are doing. But we, you, have to put the pieces together, see where they work together or at cross purposes, and cut across departmental or other command lines if and when required. Find a solution, or many solutions, whatever works.
“My own job, as the figurehead-in-chief,” he gave a wry smile, “will be to use my gold braid and my recent elevation in public esteem, to cut across lines of any sort. To ask, persuade, or press gang anyone, anywhere, to help us. And I can add,... just a moment....”
As he spoke, Moore turned his head a bit and angled his hand toward MacPherson who quickly moved out to the hall. Moore continued, “I will be honest with you. Standing here for a few moments is showing off – more to myself than to you – but I am still recovering from a few scrapes and bruises I picked up when we had that donnybrook with the Huns a few months ago.”
Davies held the door as MacPherson came back with a wheelchair which they positioned, and then MacPherson held Moore's arm as he lowered himself into it.
“Ahh. Thank you.” Moore nodded toward his helper. Clearly this was not MacPherson's first time helping him get around.
“I try to save those bursts of energy for when I really need it. I am getting a bit stronger every passing week, but I shall always have limits to that.
“Most days I will be here for a short time if at all, or when my presence seems especially useful. Other days I will be meeting with the Admiralty or other departments, or anyone in high places who might be able to help us. The First Lord, Mr. Balfour, has assured me that he speaks for the Prime Minister when he says that the country will support us, 'howsoever you may require.' to use his exact words”
Smithy spoke up: “Sir, there is a whole anti-submarine and sea patrol apparatus that is already working for all they are worth to stop the U-boats. How do we fit in, and how do we avoid conflicts?”
“Good question. First, they are doing the work and we will respect them at every turn. We will learn from them at every opportunity. Whatever we learn ourselves, we will share. When we think we figure something out, we will ask if it has been tested. We will work on testing it with them. We will give credit where credit is due. Credit will come to all in abundance from finding a solution. Second, we are intended to work outside the usual lines, to ask questions, to gather information from different sources to compare and contrast. We are not going to invent some new weapon ourselves, but we might see something at odds in the reports, or in the way that U-boats are currently viewed. In that way we are to be free of operational necessities or traditional fiefdoms and open to free thinking. We are a long shot, but Admiral Jackson as 1SL, and Admiral Jellicoe who had us with the Grand Fleet, thought that given the success Smithy and I had with the FACT system, might strike it lucky once again.”
Moore paused and looked around, then smiled slowly. “None of you are here entirely by accident. The least that can be said is that in your previous posts you were considered creative, and in some cases independent-minded or even downright impertinent, or indeed worse – from a traditional point of view. I will let you trade details later over drinks, but suffice it to say your previous commanding officers considered you to be thinkers who were not always completely bound by the KR&AI. With this assignment, that is a definite asset.”
Lieutenant Commander Barker, was looking down at his hands and smiling, while Lieutenant Robinson could not help but chuckle as he spoke. “Sir, I suppose I might have learned too much from some of my clients...my less socially compliant clients...before the war. Sir.”
Moore shared in the laugh. “Exactly. We have to look where others are not and figure out whatever it takes to stop the U-boats from sinking our ships and scaring the neutrals coming to port with the goods and resources Britain needs. Smithy and I have worked together in the past, and we have spoken a few times these past two weeks. He has my complete confidence. As to our group, I am optimistic and I am sure we will soon develop a similar level of confidence in each other.
“And so gentlemen, we have our task. We have a wide-open mandate to pursue anything which might help get more U-boats sunk and allow ships to get to and from our ports. The total of losses is rising every week, and will soon be a threat to our ability to wage war in France.
“I have a few things to discuss with Commander Torrance Smythe before I go. Smithy, what do we have for an office? Lead on.”
Moore turned his head a bit. “MacPherson, if you would, please. Flags, oh...stop! Before we go, gentlemen: this is Lieutenant Lyons,* my new Flag Lieutenant. You will see him around from time to time as he does my legwork for me. Alright, let's go.”
== ==
*Ficticious character. We can't go through this story just calling him Flags.
TWO
The door opened and PO MacPherson stepped through and held it as Vice Admiral Sir Archibald Gordon Moore stepped slowly forward. All jumped to their feet, and on recognizing that it really was Moore standing at the head of the table, all stood a bit straighter. There were smiles all around.
“Thank you, gentlemen. Please be seated.” His flag lieutenant slipped unobtrusively into a corner as CPO Davies pulled the chair off to the side.
“Commander Torrance Smythe – Smithy – has by now given you the essence of your task. My job will be to help, to guide, and to protect you as you get down to work, as you ask questions and test solutions. My job will be to open doors for you. If you need to see anyone about anything, ask any question, I can open that door.
“Smithy will be in day-to-day command, and for formal purposes I shall be the commanding officer, and you may use my name, if necessary, when requesting information or help of any kind. We don't have a name, but I suppose you could say you are part of my staff. Administration will be from HM Dockyard, but the chain of command will be that I report directly to their Lordships. I have no other assignment or command. You are not just one of many responsibilities – this will be my sole focus. The U-boat menace is critical for the United Kingdom and the Empire.
“Admiral Jackson was rather terse, he said he doesn't want lengthy written orders distracting us from getting on with the job. And the job is simple: do whatever it takes. To quote the written orders: “Determine means by which the RN or other forces can sweep enemy submarines from critical sea lanes in order that merchant ships can come and go from United Kingdom ports in safety.” We can coordinate with others, whether RN or scientists, seamen of any kind. Druids for all anyone cares. Find out what they know, and what they are doing. But we, you, have to put the pieces together, see where they work together or at cross purposes, and cut across departmental or other command lines if and when required. Find a solution, or many solutions, whatever works.
“My own job, as the figurehead-in-chief,” he gave a wry smile, “will be to use my gold braid and my recent elevation in public esteem, to cut across lines of any sort. To ask, persuade, or press gang anyone, anywhere, to help us. And I can add,... just a moment....”
As he spoke, Moore turned his head a bit and angled his hand toward MacPherson who quickly moved out to the hall. Moore continued, “I will be honest with you. Standing here for a few moments is showing off – more to myself than to you – but I am still recovering from a few scrapes and bruises I picked up when we had that donnybrook with the Huns a few months ago.”
Davies held the door as MacPherson came back with a wheelchair which they positioned, and then MacPherson held Moore's arm as he lowered himself into it.
“Ahh. Thank you.” Moore nodded toward his helper. Clearly this was not MacPherson's first time helping him get around.
“I try to save those bursts of energy for when I really need it. I am getting a bit stronger every passing week, but I shall always have limits to that.
“Most days I will be here for a short time if at all, or when my presence seems especially useful. Other days I will be meeting with the Admiralty or other departments, or anyone in high places who might be able to help us. The First Lord, Mr. Balfour, has assured me that he speaks for the Prime Minister when he says that the country will support us, 'howsoever you may require.' to use his exact words”
Smithy spoke up: “Sir, there is a whole anti-submarine and sea patrol apparatus that is already working for all they are worth to stop the U-boats. How do we fit in, and how do we avoid conflicts?”
“Good question. First, they are doing the work and we will respect them at every turn. We will learn from them at every opportunity. Whatever we learn ourselves, we will share. When we think we figure something out, we will ask if it has been tested. We will work on testing it with them. We will give credit where credit is due. Credit will come to all in abundance from finding a solution. Second, we are intended to work outside the usual lines, to ask questions, to gather information from different sources to compare and contrast. We are not going to invent some new weapon ourselves, but we might see something at odds in the reports, or in the way that U-boats are currently viewed. In that way we are to be free of operational necessities or traditional fiefdoms and open to free thinking. We are a long shot, but Admiral Jackson as 1SL, and Admiral Jellicoe who had us with the Grand Fleet, thought that given the success Smithy and I had with the FACT system, might strike it lucky once again.”
Moore paused and looked around, then smiled slowly. “None of you are here entirely by accident. The least that can be said is that in your previous posts you were considered creative, and in some cases independent-minded or even downright impertinent, or indeed worse – from a traditional point of view. I will let you trade details later over drinks, but suffice it to say your previous commanding officers considered you to be thinkers who were not always completely bound by the KR&AI. With this assignment, that is a definite asset.”
Lieutenant Commander Barker, was looking down at his hands and smiling, while Lieutenant Robinson could not help but chuckle as he spoke. “Sir, I suppose I might have learned too much from some of my clients...my less socially compliant clients...before the war. Sir.”
Moore shared in the laugh. “Exactly. We have to look where others are not and figure out whatever it takes to stop the U-boats from sinking our ships and scaring the neutrals coming to port with the goods and resources Britain needs. Smithy and I have worked together in the past, and we have spoken a few times these past two weeks. He has my complete confidence. As to our group, I am optimistic and I am sure we will soon develop a similar level of confidence in each other.
“And so gentlemen, we have our task. We have a wide-open mandate to pursue anything which might help get more U-boats sunk and allow ships to get to and from our ports. The total of losses is rising every week, and will soon be a threat to our ability to wage war in France.
“I have a few things to discuss with Commander Torrance Smythe before I go. Smithy, what do we have for an office? Lead on.”
Moore turned his head a bit. “MacPherson, if you would, please. Flags, oh...stop! Before we go, gentlemen: this is Lieutenant Lyons,* my new Flag Lieutenant. You will see him around from time to time as he does my legwork for me. Alright, let's go.”
== ==
*Ficticious character. We can't go through this story just calling him Flags.
Why not?
Looks round, realises not everyone knows RN terminology, mumbles a retraction and leaves quickly...
ps Good update
Well.........I had him written in as Flaggy....Why not?
ps Good update
PS: Thanks.
Firstly, Hurrah that Moore made it through mostly intact. That is good news.
The brief he delivered however is a bit too wide ranging. "We have a wide-open mandate to pursue anything which might help get more U-boats sunk and allow ships to get to and from our ports. " very much sums up the problem the Admiralty has - they have not realised the first point of is unconnected with the second.
The freedom to think outside the lines is also a mixed blessing, the solution (convoys) is very much inside the lines. It's just in a bit people don't look at much and are ignoring. It will be interesting to see how they get on.
The brief he delivered however is a bit too wide ranging. "We have a wide-open mandate to pursue anything which might help get more U-boats sunk and allow ships to get to and from our ports. " very much sums up the problem the Admiralty has - they have not realised the first point of is unconnected with the second.
The freedom to think outside the lines is also a mixed blessing, the solution (convoys) is very much inside the lines. It's just in a bit people don't look at much and are ignoring. It will be interesting to see how they get on.
Is this the beginning of what became to be termed Operational Research? About a quarter of a century early.