I'm was wondering which time period would be the best for the King of England/UK (if it forms) to also control Normandy.
A POD 1 month after Henry V's death. His father-in-law is still alive and supports his daughter (you must remember at this point in time the future Charles VII discredited himself with the affair with John the fearless not only in front of his father, but all the nobles at Paris!). Let's say we don't butterfly away Henry VI's marriage to Margret of Anjou. But anything else is up for grabs. Henry VI not being insane, the Burgundies closer to the English (the marriage with Margret of Anjou partially alienated them but didn't push them entirely out of the Plantagenet camp... though her court manners didn't help), Margret being a competent administrator and not antagonizing almost every one she meets... anything. Before you ask "what does this have to do with Normandy?" I think Normandy was merged with the French crown at this point. And if it wasn't, then a later butterfly can put it back into the crownlands.
A POD 3 years before Richard the Lionhearted's death. It's going to be tricky because John is either a completely moronic general (the traditional view) or an above average tactician for his time but ridiculously unlucky general (a view that's surprisingly common among a lot of 20th century literature), but Richard doesn't know that and thought John would be more likely to keep Normandy safe from Phillipe than Arthur.
A POD around 1164. Henry Fitzpress of England and Normandy has some unruly sons. On top of that, they are likely to butt heads with each other when he dies. His spouse had decided to get back at him for his infidelity. What to do?
So for the poll, I just wanted to know what people thought was the best POD of these for a union (as in a POD that least the fewest "nudges" to help after the POD). Pick your time and name what exactly the POD would be.
Also, do not put your answer for the poll, which would be best for a union that still had some Anglo-Norman cultural influence on the crown.
For the language of Anglo-Norman (not nescarrily the culture), it reached its peak during Richard's reign, having the most speakers there and a great deal of the mobility (the Normans themselves and Anglo-Saxon nobles who needed to kiss up to the crown). Still, most of the population was speaking English. by Henry V's time, the number of Anglo-Norman speakers was a third of this, the court language was made English and probably most of them spoke middle English as a primary language. However becoming French Kings would have made the English kings spend more time across the channel.
Regular Norman and Anglo-Norman appears to be mutually intelligible. Regular Norman speakers could understand "standard" court style French, a one way intelligibility.
So this is two questions. One, which POD is best of these three (the situation isn't good for any of them to be honest) simply for having English Kings control Normandy? the other is which is best if the end goal is English kings controlling Normandy, Anglo-Norman influence remains on the crown (the language can die out, but I mean some cultural influence) and England still believing in the divine right of kings (a later concept) OR dynastic principle (the high middle ages train of though)? Three, can you explain the POD (the poll just asks for a time period)
if you only know the first answer, it's OK just to discuss it since it's a simpler question.
Edit: I poorly worded the question and misunderstood how dynastic ruling worked, so these are corrected
A POD 1 month after Henry V's death. His father-in-law is still alive and supports his daughter (you must remember at this point in time the future Charles VII discredited himself with the affair with John the fearless not only in front of his father, but all the nobles at Paris!). Let's say we don't butterfly away Henry VI's marriage to Margret of Anjou. But anything else is up for grabs. Henry VI not being insane, the Burgundies closer to the English (the marriage with Margret of Anjou partially alienated them but didn't push them entirely out of the Plantagenet camp... though her court manners didn't help), Margret being a competent administrator and not antagonizing almost every one she meets... anything. Before you ask "what does this have to do with Normandy?" I think Normandy was merged with the French crown at this point. And if it wasn't, then a later butterfly can put it back into the crownlands.
A POD 3 years before Richard the Lionhearted's death. It's going to be tricky because John is either a completely moronic general (the traditional view) or an above average tactician for his time but ridiculously unlucky general (a view that's surprisingly common among a lot of 20th century literature), but Richard doesn't know that and thought John would be more likely to keep Normandy safe from Phillipe than Arthur.
A POD around 1164. Henry Fitzpress of England and Normandy has some unruly sons. On top of that, they are likely to butt heads with each other when he dies. His spouse had decided to get back at him for his infidelity. What to do?
So for the poll, I just wanted to know what people thought was the best POD of these for a union (as in a POD that least the fewest "nudges" to help after the POD). Pick your time and name what exactly the POD would be.
Also, do not put your answer for the poll, which would be best for a union that still had some Anglo-Norman cultural influence on the crown.
For the language of Anglo-Norman (not nescarrily the culture), it reached its peak during Richard's reign, having the most speakers there and a great deal of the mobility (the Normans themselves and Anglo-Saxon nobles who needed to kiss up to the crown). Still, most of the population was speaking English. by Henry V's time, the number of Anglo-Norman speakers was a third of this, the court language was made English and probably most of them spoke middle English as a primary language. However becoming French Kings would have made the English kings spend more time across the channel.
Regular Norman and Anglo-Norman appears to be mutually intelligible. Regular Norman speakers could understand "standard" court style French, a one way intelligibility.
So this is two questions. One, which POD is best of these three (the situation isn't good for any of them to be honest) simply for having English Kings control Normandy? the other is which is best if the end goal is English kings controlling Normandy, Anglo-Norman influence remains on the crown (the language can die out, but I mean some cultural influence) and England still believing in the divine right of kings (a later concept) OR dynastic principle (the high middle ages train of though)? Three, can you explain the POD (the poll just asks for a time period)
if you only know the first answer, it's OK just to discuss it since it's a simpler question.
Edit: I poorly worded the question and misunderstood how dynastic ruling worked, so these are corrected
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