Enemies and allies of a second Napoleonic war

[Pauh the federalist]

A wanked Napoleon III (and later IV after his death) during the Victorian age results in otl's world war being considered the second Napoleonic war. Regardless of the final outcome, what allies could France attract to build a comparable alliance in contrast to a enemy alliance that consists of at least Britain, its Commonwealth and Prussia (or north german confederation)?

 

[Histor32]

A wanked Napoleon III (and later IV after his death) during the Victorian age results in otl's world war being considered the second Napoleonic war. Regardless of the final outcome, what allies could France attract to build a comparable alliance in contrast to a enemy alliance that consists of at least Britain, its Commonwealth and Prussia (or north german confederation)?

Well for one . France would need to win against Prussia in the Franco Prussian war or Bismark needs to butterflied and Prussian leadership .
Also.. Mexico . Under a Bonaparte would be interesting.

France could align with again some of these are possibilities I mentioned before in the other thread on alt WW1.

France, possibly, Spain if yiu could butterfly Spanish American War.

You Might get Italy in.

Germany is going to be a hard sell. Prussia basically owns the place.

Denmark might join for revenge, Austria might be interested.


So first what is the butterfly event, and then how do build the disparate allience needed.

Russia isn't going to join.. Prussia isn't going to and neither will England. Who is France going to attack? Prussia? March on Russia?

By after 1870 the weapons and tactics were evolving. Honestly it's a great idea, but they need at least 2 more solid partners, or go it alone which isn't going to end well.

 

[Histor32]

And yes it would get called a

• The third napoleonanic war..
• the dismemberment of France for all time

Another item would be that the ottomans could join the French.. There are lots of possibilities depending on when the pod is.

If Austria, Denmark and Austria are insulted in defeat by Prussia who unifies Germany but goes on a be nice to Russia and England pr tour and not playing whacky navy with the English. It could be possible . Though unlikely that Austria could join up with France for split control of the balkans and securing the Eastern border with Russia and possibly getting some revenge on Prussia

Italy could join for the balkans and Africa

Ottomans to extract revenge and improve its position.

All this said and again depending on pod.

Britain, Prussia Russia . That's gonna be pretty hard to stop.

If Mexico is run by a Bonaparte then the USA could be brought in against Mexico . Then we'll war is over once the yanks get up to speed.

But to note France can not do this alone.

Also if Spain joins France, Portugal is in with the brits. Not sure what Spain would get except Africa, Gibraltar and eh

 

[Histor32]

France would need to be building up since 1870 quite heavily.. And again you are going need some butterflies that are going to make other issues

 

[Histor32]

France with out a direct ally can only push east in to Germany, attack Belgium which makes no sense.. Attack Austria, Italy or Spain.

France played a role in Italian unification
France was actually not on so bad of terms with Austria in 1860s and also relations are not really bad with Spain.


So to spark said war and understanding all the butterflies that leaders will change and events role different this WW1 will be quite a different world.

Possibly a stunted world of sorts.

The number of places that could trigger a war in Europe that France is the kingoin of are limited.

By all rights if France was at least compitent it should have one 1870. It wasn't.


So let's get a PoD in here.

No German unification means that the southern states might be Austrian . Or a Bavarian buffer state

No war of 1870 means no one is learning the new tactics.

If Bismark. And Co fail well that doesn't bode well for Prussia.

Spain and the Spanish American War removed them as any kind of a power.

Mexico, could keep the USA busy.. Not sure if it could win and could the French or Austrians power project

Denmark is much to small..

Italy could be useful

Austria Hungary is the key here to things.

How happy is the Austrian tag team empire

So what do they gain. A partition of Germany, and pushing Prussia back into Poland.

And what about Poland ...

So now you get Russia who doesn't care for Poland or Austria coming to help Prussia.

Who is the tsar? Nikolas?

The English would get involved over suez and the straights, do they fight on land though in any great numbers.

This would have knock on Africa effects as well based on pod. A more aggressive French are going to scramble harder in Africa, and they may help allies to achieve colonies.

Those ottomans . When do they become French friends, does this friendship help them modernize and become a little better than the icu patient of Europe.
Negate British presence in Egypt and the Levant.

In the balkans you have liberation movements. What about the Greeks, the Bulgarians, Serbians.

You just have way to many butterflies and completely different Europe that would have different reasons for war.

 

[Histor32]

So in this Europe who can help the French the most and what are the aims of the war.

Destroy Prussia? If no 1870 I don't see a hard pressed reason for the hate by the French. Going after Russia? That worked so well the first time.

 

[sendô]

A wanked Napoleon III (and later IV after his death) during the Victorian age results in otl's world war being considered the second Napoleonic war. Regardless of the final outcome, what allies could France attract to build a comparable alliance in contrast to a enemy alliance that consists of at least Britain, its Commonwealth and Prussia (or north german confederation)?

There was an alliance against Napoleon III, it was the German Confederation and Italy.

The Napoleonic Wars were so called because it wasn't really France plus allies against A.N.Other plus allies, it was France with a couple of satellite states against ALL of major European powers, either in turn or often all at once.

So really you need Prussia to not become powerful enough to dominate the North German States, and of course no 1870 war unifying Germany. Then France can be the dominant land power on the continent going into the 20th C.

The reality is post 1815 if France gets pushy anywhere, the other states are going to gang up on her.

 

[Pauh the federalist]

I was under the impression that the British Russian relationship during the Napoleonic war had broken over the Victorian era due in part to Britain's numerous attempts to block Russian ambitions. So Russia may be up for grabs for a French alliance.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

I was under the impression that the British Russian relationship during the Napoleonic war had broken over the Victorian era due in part to Britain's numerous attempts to block Russian ambitions. So Russia may be up for grabs for a French alliance.

That's not how Nappy III ever rolled though. His policy was always to try to stay on Britain's good side, which was great for French commerce, kept Britain away from influencing Continental affairs (leaving it open for himself), and meant he could pursue a respectable level of colonial ambitions without running into British resistance that would make the projects too expensive and attention-consuming. If anything, Russia would likely be the big cheese of the Anti-French forces, possibly in alliance with Austria.

 

[Lord_Vespasian]

A wanked Napoleon III (and later IV after his death) during the Victorian age results in otl's world war being considered the second Napoleonic war. Regardless of the final outcome, what allies could France attract to build a comparable alliance in contrast to a enemy alliance that consists of at least Britain, its Commonwealth and Prussia (or north german confederation)?

I'd say Italy, Spain, Austria, the Ottomans, and maybe America if France is willing to let them have Mexico in their sphere vs the UK, Prussia, Russia, maybe Portugal and Japan, and potentially America if France remains adamant on staying in Mexico.