End of Days by Harry Turtledove

https://turtledove.fandom.com/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega



I guess it’s a testament to how much AH has exploded and evolved as a genre when new works from Turtledove or Stirling don’t get discussion here- or how their work has declined and been eclipsed by newer works.

I saw it at Barnes and Noble. I’m uninterested, but it’s interesting that HT is writing about Abrahamic religions in such a way. WI the Bible is true: the POD. Anyway seen this?
 
https://turtledove.fandom.com/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega



I guess it’s a testament to how much AH has exploded and evolved as a genre when new works from Turtledove or Stirling don’t get discussion here- or how their work has declined and been eclipsed by newer works.

I saw it at Barnes and Noble. I’m uninterested, but it’s interesting that HT is writing about Abrahamic religions in such a way. WI the Bible is true: the POD. Anyway seen this?
I think Clive Barker (Newer Testament) and Stephen King (The Stand) did better interpretations, in terms of quality and presentation, which were more respectful of the initial source material.
 
Yeah, been a while since I read a Turtledove or Stirling book. If this makes sense, believe Turtledove's creative pool is just about dry. Far as Stirling goes, read his Draka books about 25 years ago and that's been about it for me.
 
One things that bugs me about the book, after skimming through it is the fact the book never features reaction outside the western world. It never features Asia, Africa or Latin America.

Also, it never has leaders who act like bad comedy stereotypes of their religions.
 
Kind of torn, probably not going to read this. Once upon a time I bought everything Turtledove wrote the day it hit the shelves and then devoured it like a kid eating ice cream (same for Clive Cussler books). Over time it all started getting boring and everything followed the same stock formula. Then the wife made me get rid of the books that were occupying entire shelves because there were so many pristine hardcovers and I started getting them from the local library. After awhile it became clear that I was doing this not because I liked the books all that much but because it was simply part of my routine, like brushing my teeth or feeding my dogs. All part of getting old I guess.
 
I tried Worldwar, put it down when I realized the invaders forming breeding pools was going to be major plot point, and never tried a Turtledove novel again.
 
Down in the Bottomlands is still one of Harry's best works, and that's from early in his AH writing career.

Unlike Stirling, he's always seemed a nice fella' to me, and as long as his writing pays for his house and his kids' tuition, I don't mind.

It's just a pity he ran out of steam and ideas a long, long time ago. I'll second Resurgam that I thought Worldwar was already rather woeful.
 
I read a few Turtledoves, which ranged from Guns of the South to the first Worldwar book (which I liked) and the infamous In The Presence of Mine Enemies (which I agree is terrible). Since then, even in the periods when I've more into alternate history, his books have rarely crossed my mind.

In terms of writing, I have to agree with the "he's generally good at short stories, but gets worse the longer the work" semi-consensus. Some of his style can be forgiven for having to write to a big audience of non history enthusiasts and thus having to use parallelism and obvious changes, but even in purely literary terms, it isn't the best.

In terms of being a "fixture", I think he was (note the past tense) a good introductory/popular alternate history writer, back when the way to get in was "look in the sci-fi section, see a Turtledove book", but technology and the very success of spreading the idea of AH throughout the mainstream has rendered his books obsolescent in that regard. Now it's more like watching The Man In The High Castle or just typing in "Alternate history books" and getting many more results.
 
https://turtledove.fandom.com/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega



I guess it’s a testament to how much AH has exploded and evolved as a genre when new works from Turtledove or Stirling don’t get discussion here- or how their work has declined and been eclipsed by newer works.

I saw it at Barnes and Noble. I’m uninterested, but it’s interesting that HT is writing about Abrahamic religions in such a way. WI the Bible is true: the POD. Anyway seen this?
Very interesting. I had wondered about this . So it doesn't take the whole Rapture and Antichrist route as in the Left Behind books ? A;sp at the end when Messiah raises the dead does it state that's just in Jerusalem or worldwide ?
 
This isn't strictly AH, but more of a thriller style story. I liked it better than some of his other "works".
 
I have a general fondness for Turtledove (I think, as some have pointed out, due to his works being a "gateway" into AH), though I fully understand why he's not as fondly looked at on the boards anymore. Worldwar, TL-191, In the Presence of Mine Enemies, the Hot War series, the Cross Time Traffic series, and even Darkest Europe. Growing up in a fundamentalist Chrisitan household and having since left that, I can't get myself to be interested in this one though.
 
I read it and was really disappointed. Turtledove is capable of far better
So it sounds like the book doesn't depict the Rapture or the Antichrist like the Left Behind books ? Also are the dead raised worldwide or just in Jerusalem ?


I have a general fondness for Turtledove (I think, as some have pointed out, due to his works being a "gateway" into AH), though I fully understand why he's not as fondly looked at on the boards anymore. Worldwar, TL-191, In the Presence of Mine Enemies, the Hot War series, the Cross Time Traffic series, and even Darkest Europe. Growing up in a fundamentalist Chrisitan household and having since left that, I can't get myself to be interested in this one though.
To me most of it not all of the criticism of HT is sour grapes- lets see others do better. I also really agree about HT as being the gateway into AH as Guns of the South is what really got me into the genre. I think its safe to say a considerable number of AH fans became so through reading his works
 
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So I read the book about two months ago and frankly I feel like it's his best work of the 2010s. I wrote a positive review of it for the Washington Science Fiction Association which will be public soon.

One things that bugs me about the book, after skimming through it is the fact the book never features reaction outside the western world. It never features Asia, Africa or Latin America.
It's pretty limited to the Middle East, but there's definitely a lot of Asia. The bulk of the book is set in the Holy Land and there's a whole subplot with Iran. I would though have liked some discussion of places that do not follow the Abrahamic faith.

Also, it never has leaders who act like bad comedy stereotypes of their religions.
Shlomo Kupferman, the Israeli Religion minister, arguably counts, but it's not a comic stereotype. I liked how Christians, Jews, and Muslims all had reasonable people representing them.

I have a general fondness for Turtledove (I think, as some have pointed out, due to his works being a "gateway" into AH), though I fully understand why he's not as fondly looked at on the boards anymore. Worldwar, TL-191, In the Presence of Mine Enemies, the Hot War series, the Cross Time Traffic series, and even Darkest Europe. Growing up in a fundamentalist Chrisitan household and having since left that, I can't get myself to be interested in this one though.
It's definitely not your standard apocalypse narrative. A big conflict of the book revolves around Jews, Muslims, and Christians attempting to fit the supernatural occurrences to their own views of the apocalypse. Additionally, the conclusion is something that I would think is heretical to all three simultaneously, in something that is an unambiguous call for tolerance.

So it sounds like the book doesn't depict the Rapture or the Antichrist like the Left Behind books ? Also are the dead raised worldwide or just in Jerusalem ?
There is no raising of the dead at all.
 
There is no raising of the dead at all.

Well the reason I ask is because the HT wiki description of the book the OP posted specifically says that did happen- in the last sentence of the entry for the novel ?
 
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He can be a gateway to Alternate History, and then later, people outgrow his books. Worldwar was fun, and I liked Ruled Britania. Not having read this, I won't judge it--but it doesn't look worth the time.
 
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