Empires End: TL Help

Alright, so awhile ago I started doing a timeline that I'd titled Empires End, however going over it I realized their were alot of areas that were just,
well crap, so I've decided to start over while keeping several of the main points of it.

However I've come to the realization that, while I do know enough to get the basics, overall I need help with it overall.
While I have the initial PoD set in the early 19th century, I'm willing to move it back somewhat, but I'd prefer to not go before 1800.



So, here's the PoD(s) and the few basic points throughout the TL I'm adhering to, everything in between though I've not yet decided on.


PoD(s):

• During the late 1820's / early 1830's the French government, seeing the economic and strategic value that a rail transit system could have
started building a national network.

• The United States and Britain go to war as a result of the Caroline Affair (need to work out more details here), resulting eventually in the First Global War.


Main TL Anchors:

• France replaces and outdoes OTL Britain as a world Empire.

• As a result of GW1 the British Empire begins a slow decline, having lost several colonial territories.

• British North America is lost to France and the U.S. in GW1 and the 1st Franco-British War.

• The Crimean War analogue spirals out of control leading to a Second Great War, resulting in a severely defeated Russia, losing a great deal of territory
(resulting in it having more or less modern Russian border with 90% of Belarus) and essentially losing any chance of ever becoming a Great Power.

• Japan casts off isolationism somewhat earlier, eventually taking control of parts of the Russian Far East, Manchuria and all of Taiwan.

• Hawai'i becomes a French overseas territory rather than becoming part of America.

• Global War Two having sapped American military strength leads to a worse ACW until France intervenes, resulting in all of the CSA sans
'Greater New Orleans' being reabsorbed into America as well as American annexation of Baja California and a portion of Mexico just South of Texas.

• The Treaty of London does'nt happen, eventually leading to 'Flanders' being re-absorbed into the Netherlands and France annexing 'Wallonia'.

• Prussia (and by default Germany) never become major powers, and as a result of GW1 loses territory to France and the Netherlands, and later in a different
war much of East Prussia is lost to the French backed Polish.

• Following German Unification the new state's western border is the Rhine, while it's Southern border is with A-H, it's Eastern border with Poland
(slightly East of the modern border, Prussia lost more territory in a different war) and it's Northern border Denmark (with Schleswig-Holstein)
to the North.

• Italian Unification comes as a result of French-backed Sardinia-Piedmont having annexed the other Italian states, after a war between the
Two Sicillies, Papal States and Austria.

• Liberia becomes a failed state soon after its founding, with the remaining population centered around the capital.

• Prussia, still reeling from the defeat of GW1 does not support the uprising during the Schleswig-Holstein Question, leading to the region remaining
a part of Denmark.

• Scandinavia forms as a result of Dano-Swedish close-relations in the second half of the 19th century.

• Ireland is lost to France following the First Franco-British War (1880), it remains an autonomous region of France into the modern day, influencing the
formation of a colony at one point.

• Scotland becomes jointly controlled by France and Britain as a sui generis entity not part of either but not independnent after the
Second Franco-British War (1895), however it eventually votes to rejoin the UK as an autonomous member in the 1960's when French subsidies stop.

• America establishes an East African colony, though not fully intentionally.

• China becomes an American protectorate, resulting in America gaining the Shanghai territory, which later becomes a state in the 1970's.

• Italy and France are long term, close allies.

• Scandinavia retains Saint Barthelemy & the Danish Virgin islands and eventually forms a colony where Liberia was.

• The British Empire by 1900 is comprised of the Home island (England, Wales and the Isle of Man), New Zealand, 1/3 of Australia and 80% of a slightly
larger Raj and the Nepal protectorate.

• The Republic of Hindia becomes an independent (French quasi-puppet) nation somwhere between 1880 and 1920.

• South Africa is a multi-cultural (most Euro nations represented) state with several official languages, including French, English, Dutch and Zulu.



The below map shows the French colonial Empire at its height
1. Light blue are protectorates.
2. The borders of several nations, particularly Scandinavia are not set in stone, and in the latter case are likely to change somewhat.

EmpEn French Empire at Height.png
 
Last edited:
So, basically I need people's help fleshing out everything in between.

I may actually, once it's fleshed out, create a collaborative environment within the overall TL.
 
Just a quick suggestion, might want to change it to "Crimean War Analouge" because it would start differently too, and perhaps reminders that WW1 and WW2 are no where near related to ours, incase people forget.
 
Just a quick suggestion, might want to change it to "Crimean War Analouge" because it would start differently too, and perhaps reminders that WW1 and WW2 are no where near related to ours, incase people forget.

Indeed, changed for clarification.



Also, a few clarifications on the wars and who was in them.


Global War One (1838):
France, America, Sardinia, the Netherlands, Spain and Denmark
vs.
Britain and Prussia.

Global War Two (1856): France, Sardinia, Britain, Sweden, Denmark, Spain, the Netherlands, Portugal, the Ottoman Empire and America
vs.
Russia.

First Franco-British War (1880):
France, America, and the Netherlands
vs.
Britain

Second Franco-British War (1895):
France, America and Italy
vs.
Britain and (rump) Australia
 
Two things which may help: faster industrialization for France in comparison with the UK, and political stability, preferably a democratic (Republic or Monarchy) that allows free expression to prevent violent changes of regime and consequent instability and change of policies that may prove useful to France.
In diplomatic terms, it would help if the monarchies alied to France in 1838 have similar regimes (or close enough), or in alternative, that Britain and Prussia took any actions (economic or military) which may have driven France's allies to her side.
In the US case, perhaps an economic conflict or a dispute over lands in the Pacific coast could move the US closer to France.
I hope this helps.:)
 

Actually, I've been considering just that.



What I have in terms of French politics so far;

• The July Monarchy came to power, enacting various liberal reforms.

• Following the stalemate in Southern Africa, and the OTL problems of the time the July Monarchy was overthrown and the Second Republic established.

• The Second Republic saw the beginning of long-term stability with governments either under the Possibilists or the Union Populaire Républicaine.

• The Second Republic was replaced by the Third Republic via the adoption of a new constitution in 1875, following the negotiations with the Northern Commune.

• As a result of the new constitution the various colonies were re-organized and equal rights were afforded to all, this lead to a generally more stable French Colonial Empire.
This had the affect of making the FCE a major destination for immigration.

• The Third Republic was replaced by the Fourth Republic in the 1950's as a way to allow for the peaceful and responsible independence of several of the territories.

• The Fourth Republic gave way to the Fifth Republic in the earl 1970's and is the current modern government ITTL.


As for her allies, well I have'nt figured out the exacts, but the Netherlands enjoys close relations with France do to France's actions allowing them to keep half of Belgium, and they early on, for a reason I'm still trying to figure out, have close relations with Spain, Denmark and, for awhile Portugal.
Later on they have good relations with the various nations that gained independence from Russia as a result of France's actions.

As for America, well France sided with them in the initial Caroline Affair war to try and weaken Britain, but over time developed a close relationship that lasts until the modern day, in which America and France are the Worlds Superpowers.
 
A side note, France in the modern day retained more of its former possessions.


The ATL French Federal Republic is comprised of the following;


The Modern Day French Federal Republic is comprised of the following;

European France:
-Metropolitan France (includes channel islands)
-Kerkira
-Malta
-Rhodes

Overseas Region's:
-Bahamas
-Gran New Orléans
-Guiana
-Kowloon (slightly larger Hong Kong)
-Malouines (Falklands)
-Micronesia
-Polynesia
-Sind Islands (Maldives, British IOT)
-Socotra

Overseas Collectivities:
-Barbadie
-Gibraltar
-Norfolk Islands
-Mauritius
-Réunion
-Sainte-Hélène

Autonomous Region's:
-Caribbean Islands
-Hawai'i
-Ireland
-Mérida
-Shetland islands

Military District's:
-Ascension island
-Clipperton island

Territory:
-French Antarctic Islands

Special Reserve:
-Galápagos
 
Last edited:
It is possible that New Zealand, or at least the South Island would be French given your POD, given that Britain didn't assume sovereignty until 1840
 
It is possible that New Zealand, or at least the South Island would be French given your POD, given that Britain didn't assume sovereignty until 1840

Actually, I did have NZ as French initially, but I decided to have it as being a kind of compensation for Britain.
 
Just so you know, there is no possible POD after 1800 that would return Quebec to the French. (Pretty much ditto for South Africa, southern India, Dalmatia, Ireland, Cuba, Vancouver, Azerbaijan, etc. Basically everything you added not from OTL, with the exception of Thailand, Burma, the Congo, and Morocco.) It would be more likely for the French to get New Zealand.

• The Second Republic saw the beginning of long-term stability with governments either under the Possibilists or the Union Populaire Républicaine.

• The Second Republic was replaced by the Third Republic via the adoption of a new constitution in 1875, following the negotiations with the Northern Commune.

• As a result of the new constitution the various colonies were re-organized and equal rights were afforded to all, this lead to a generally more stable French Colonial Empire.

A few questions about this - if the government is stable, why is it frequently overthrown / replaced by entirely new systems? :confused: Ideally a stable French republic would not keep collapsing...

Also, the part about "equal rights... to all" made me burst out laughing. :D :rolleyes:
 
Just so you know, there is no possible POD after 1800 that would return Quebec to the French. (Pretty much ditto for South Africa, southern India, Dalmatia, Ireland, Cuba, Vancouver, Azerbaijan, etc. Basically everything you added not from OTL, with the exception of Thailand, Burma, the Congo, and Morocco.) It would be more likely for the French to get New Zealand.

They're all the result of war basically, not one war, but wars over a period of a century.
Also, not all of those territories stayed under French control for a very long time, if at all, for example, Quebec never actually went back to being a French territory, rather it became a Republic with the aide of France and America.
Australia is the only major ex-British territory outside of Africa that actually became/remained a part fo France for along while.
Vancouver island became a seperate nation about a year after France claimed it.
Ireland of course remained a aprt fo France as a result fo France going out of its way to win them over, and throughlout the entire ordeal it's remained highly autonomous, indeed apart from Defence, Foreign Affairs, the National constitution and the two major Federal taxes, Ireland is essentialy a seperate country.



A few questions about this - if the government is stable, why is it frequently overthrown / replaced by entirely new systems? :confused: Ideally a stable French republic would not keep collapsing...

Also, the part about "equal rights... to all" made me burst out laughing. :D :rolleyes:

It's not overthrown, it just adopts a new constitution, thus changing from the second to third and so on.

Well, equal rights in relative terms.
Full equal rights to all groups the way we'd think of it did'nt come about ITTL until the 30's.
 
Last edited:
Top