Emerald against the Giant: 'What if Ireland attacked Britain in 1940?'

Would Ireland stand a chance?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 9 6.3%
  • Not a chance!

    Votes: 125 86.8%
  • Whats Ireland?

    Votes: 10 6.9%

  • Total voters
    144
Behold, Operation Emerald Sealion! Just when we thought it couldn't get any uglier the umentionable sea mammal takes a whole new form!
 

Thande

Donor
Behold, Operation Emerald Sealion! Just when we thought it couldn't get any uglier the umentionable sea mammal takes a whole new form!

Strictly speaking the Irish version of Operation Sealion was Operation Green*, the planned Nazi invasion of Southern Ireland, which was even more ridiculous (beyond the impossible?)

*YES. The Nazis really were quite absurdly obvious when it came to picking their military operation names.
 
In 1941 a large portion of Irelands male working age population was either serving in the British armed forces or working in Britain. Exactly how do the Irish raise a force of 1 million men and what do they arm them with. Granddad and his turf spade arent going to be much use against machine guns.
 
An army with 19,000 men at full strength, 4 anti-aircraft guns, 1 medium tank, 2 light tanks and a navy with one small torpedo boat plus an air force of 4 Gloster Gladiators. The British are not shaking in their boots.

Once Ireland is conquered the improvement to ASW efforts may make this a net gain for the British.
 
Its a non starter. For one thing Germany wasn't in a position to supply Eire the Royal Navy was in the way and the RAF. It would be contentious in Eire given the family connections and Irishmen serving in HM armed forces probably more contentious then joining in on the allied side. Also it would have upset Roosevelt and after the United States jioined in the war would have been a non starter. From De Valera's perspective neutrality was the easiest option.
 
This is a completely ridiculous scenario. Irish neutrality was a vastly supported stance among the general population, but it was firmly 'Neutrality' on the allied side! Also, despite a unified Ireland being on the table from the British establishment in return for us joining up, De Valera thought the Nazis were going to win the war at least at the start of it! He also was forced to ultimately conceed that there was something worse than British Imperialism ie Nazi tyranny!
There were Nazi plans to invade - operation Emerald, AFAIK, the Irish hoped to hold out in the event of an invasion for long enough to allow British soildiers to come down from the North to repel the Nazis!
 

Sior

Banned
Brian Hanley, History Ireland Vol. 13 No. 3, May/June 2005, notes IRA statements in 1940, as the Nazis overran western Europe:
  • "in July 1940 the IRA leadership issued a statement [which] made clear that if "German forces should land in Ireland, they will land ... as friends and liberators of the Irish people". The public was assured that Germany desired neither "territory nor ... economic penetration" in Ireland but only that it should play its part in the "reconstruction" of a "free and progressive Europe". The Third Reich was also praised as the "energising force" of European politics and the "guardian" of national freedom. ... In August [1940] the IRA confidently predicted that with the assistance of "our victorious European allies" Ireland would "achieve absolute independence within the next few months"."
  • In the illegal War News, the IRA's main publication, "Satisfaction was expressed that the "cleansing fire" of the German armies was driving the Jews from Europe. ... War News condemned the arrival in Ireland of "so-called Jewish refugees", along with unspecified numbers of "Albanian, Abyssinian, Mongolian [and] Tartars"."
  • Cumann na mBan saw the Nazis as "fighting Ireland's battle and the battle of all oppressed nations within the empire".
    • Nazis "planned NI invasion" with IRA help, BBC, 14 November, 2003.
    • Secret files shine light on IRA/Nazi contacts, Reuters, 14 Nov 2003.
    • Hitler and the IRA, Gary Gratton, Belfast Telegraph, 14 Nov 2003.
    • As Frank McGahon says about the IRA's support for the Germans: "England's difficulty would certainly have been Ireland's opportunity: Ireland's opportunity to live under the Nazi jackboot."
    • A past we'd rather forget by Henry McDonald sums it up: "In the 1940s, the IRA was allied to one of the most evil regimes in human history. Had they succeeded in their goal of uniting Ireland on the back of a Nazi victory, every man, woman and child would have become vassals of the Nazi empire. And, as Micheal Burleigh emphasises .. Hitler planned to eliminate the Jews of Ireland as part of his maniacal project to destroy entirely the Jewish people. Yet this collaboration with Nazism is rarely mentioned in the traditional nationalist narratives of the twentieth century."
  • When brave American troops landed in Northern Ireland in 1943 to prepare for the liberation of Europe, the IRA denounced the American military presence in Northern Ireland and threatened to attack them.
Offically Neutral, in practicality?
 
The hell does the IRA have to do with the Free State's neutrality?

There's a lot of things you can say about DeValera, but the man was not about to jump in bed with the nazis.
 
no but thats like asking if switzerland would have a chance at invading germany in 1940, of course if this was pre operation barbarossa and the germans are just focusing on the UK then they would have no need of Irish support,
 
Brian Hanley, History Ireland Vol. 13 No. 3, May/June 2005, notes IRA statements in 1940, as the Nazis overran western Europe:
  • "in July 1940 the IRA leadership issued a statement [which] made clear that if "German forces should land in Ireland, they will land ... as friends and liberators of the Irish people". The public was assured that Germany desired neither "territory nor ... economic penetration" in Ireland but only that it should play its part in the "reconstruction" of a "free and progressive Europe". The Third Reich was also praised as the "energising force" of European politics and the "guardian" of national freedom. ... In August [1940] the IRA confidently predicted that with the assistance of "our victorious European allies" Ireland would "achieve absolute independence within the next few months"."
  • In the illegal War News, the IRA's main publication, "Satisfaction was expressed that the "cleansing fire" of the German armies was driving the Jews from Europe. ... War News condemned the arrival in Ireland of "so-called Jewish refugees", along with unspecified numbers of "Albanian, Abyssinian, Mongolian [and] Tartars"."
  • Cumann na mBan saw the Nazis as "fighting Ireland's battle and the battle of all oppressed nations within the empire".
    • Nazis "planned NI invasion" with IRA help, BBC, 14 November, 2003.
    • Secret files shine light on IRA/Nazi contacts, Reuters, 14 Nov 2003.
    • Hitler and the IRA, Gary Gratton, Belfast Telegraph, 14 Nov 2003.
    • As Frank McGahon says about the IRA's support for the Germans: "England's difficulty would certainly have been Ireland's opportunity: Ireland's opportunity to live under the Nazi jackboot."
    • A past we'd rather forget by Henry McDonald sums it up: "In the 1940s, the IRA was allied to one of the most evil regimes in human history. Had they succeeded in their goal of uniting Ireland on the back of a Nazi victory, every man, woman and child would have become vassals of the Nazi empire. And, as Micheal Burleigh emphasises .. Hitler planned to eliminate the Jews of Ireland as part of his maniacal project to destroy entirely the Jewish people. Yet this collaboration with Nazism is rarely mentioned in the traditional nationalist narratives of the twentieth century."
  • When brave American troops landed in Northern Ireland in 1943 to prepare for the liberation of Europe, the IRA denounced the American military presence in Northern Ireland and threatened to attack them.
Offically Neutral, in practicality?

The Irish government and the majority of those in the IRA actually supported the Allied cause, Micheal devlin who was famous for killing 8 attacking british soldiers outside his home in Kerry fought for the American army and won the Silver star for his actions in France, and De Valera did alot more to aid the Allied cause than people give him credit for but he can hardly be blamed for not wanting to side with the UK when Ireland has just finally gotten free of Years of horrible british oppression, it would be like france siding with germany in a war only a few years WW2
 
Speaking as an avowed Irish Nationalist, Ireland would be given a hammering that would make us look back on Cromwell with fond memory.

And we'd deserve it.

Falkenburg

Yeah attacking the North makes no sense at all. Old rumors suggest that in return for letting the British use their ports, Churchill would give the Six counties to Ireland. De Valera refused. Of course I was told this by my avowedly anti-Fianna Fail aunt, so it could be nothing but lies, which I am inclined to believe. Then again Im a big Dev fan. But the reason I bring that up, is because that would be a sensible way to get control of the North. Invading? Im not sure the Irish Army could successfully defend. End result, Fianna Fail is completely and utterly destroyed as a result of the war, Ireland is occupied during wartime, facing a small but resilient resistance, with full independence being restored in 1945. Also the Irish wouldn't let the Germans put 1 million troops in Ireland. Because for one, that would be tantamount to letting the Germans occupy Ireland, which De Valera won't do, and two, the British wouldn't let it happen. Regardless of interfering with the Irish nations rights, the British would be securing their own safety which in the end is most important to the British.
 
Dev was a jerk

any ways if he did this... well first I think that Fine Gael supporters would be in open arms against him by the afternoon, failing that it should be Remembered who is PM of the UK, Churchill was the hardest of the hard liners on the Ireland issue in 1922, now 18 years latter a pro-Axis Ireland attacking the UK might give him the chance to set it right, and I doubt any Irish-American feelings would be overly warm for an Ireland that sides with Hitler and the Nazis

so Ireland is ether brought back into the UK post WWII or let be a dominion on a tight leash, all of Dev's changes wiped out and Fianna Fáil/Sinn Féin wiped out Dev likely is jailed.
 
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