Emberverse: The Golden Princess

Lateknight

Banned
Finn said:
Some dudes hit on the Mary Sue daughters of his Mary Sue characters, and then a waitress hits on them, and of course one of the guys turns out to be a murderer for some reason, and murders the bisexual waitress and frames it on one of the Mary Sues, and there's lots of discussion about how boys are hormone machines and how backwards the Corvallans are for not having neo-feudal god kings. It happens to take place at the very same tavern Juniper was playing in the night of the Change.

I don't do it justice for how Stirling-cliche it is.
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You know what's funny about the whole neo-feudal thing in the first book of this series dies the fire he has one of his characters complain about how whenever people fantasize about living in these settings they always imagine themselves the kings never the commoners.Now that's basiacally all his series has become everyone is a royal or the retainer for some royal.
 

Meatshield

Stirling tends not to really bother with the Joe Average of his worlds. The few Joe Average secondary characters that pop up tend to get pulled along into the Upper/Upper-Middle/Decision-making Class by their romantic partner (usually a rich/noble girlfriend).

Note the large number of characters who got "left behind" by the narrative after the original book. Most of those were major contributors to the formative period of the proto-McKenzie/Bearkiller groups....who never made the jump to the Leadership bracket when the social structure differentiated.
 
EnglishCanuck

EnglishCanuck

Meatshield said:
Stirling tends not to really bother with the Joe Average of his worlds. The few Joe Average secondary characters that pop up tend to get pulled along into the Upper/Upper-Middle/Decision-making Class by their romantic partner (usually a rich/noble girlfriend).

Note the large number of characters who got "left behind" by the narrative after the original book. Most of those were major contributors to the formative period of the proto-McKenzie/Bearkiller groups....who never made the jump to the Leadership bracket when the social structure differentiated.
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Yeah that's one of the few flaws in his world building process is that we don't get to see the men and women on the ground, and don't spend lots of time with them. Consequently we only get a very limited view of life in this Changed world.

That and for all we are supposed to believe that many of these new heroes are 'men of the people' we don't really see much of this second generation spending time amongst the people.
 

Meatshield

FYI: I've read the first half of the stories in the anthology.

Stirling's contribution I've already mentioned. It's not bad....but nothing really interesting happens (other than a couple of personal details about Heuradys), and the two main characters (Orlaith and Heuradys) basically solve a murder on the fly without investigating, while everyone nods at their wisdom. Grade: C.


Rate of Exchange, by A. M. Dellamonica is a lot better (a couple of new characters, plus Huon Liu, along with a new nation). Nothing earthshattering occurs, and (as usual) Montival makes unreasonable requests that everyone treats as reasonable. B-.


Tight Spot.....is unreadable. Stream of consciousness, first-person POV, weird dialects, and you end up not even knowing if the protagonist is an adult or a child. Oh, and it features the McClintock's...who are basically the McKenzies, but more annoying and less plausible.
At a guess, it takes place a few years after the Change. D-. I've read some of the writer's (Kier Salmon) fanfiction....and it's a lot better than this.


Against the Wind by Lauren C. Teffeau...is not bad. Set in the fall of 1998, and deals with a family working salvage off the Alaskan coast...and features the first chronological appearance of the Haida Raiders. B-.


The Demons of Witmer Hall by M. T. Reiten. If the scientific revelations about the Change in this story are canon....it's pretty much required reading. If they aren't canon...this story sucks, and you wasted an hour reading. B+, or D+, depending on canonicity.


Bernie, Lord of the Apes by John Jos. Miller. Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of this one. Grade TBD.


The Seeker: A Poison in the Blood by Victor Milán. Occult adventures in Mexico. B- for the writing....but the Magic is way, way, way in your face...which is a departure for the Emberverse. The description given of what exactly was involved in the Change also makes the Powers even more asshole-ish than they already seem.


Grandpa’s Gift by Terry D. England....nothing significant happens. A couple of bandit attacks and a CUT-wannabe. Set in Louisiana, at least a century after the Change. C.


Fortune and Glory by John Birmingham. Birmingham gives no shits....so he literally (and openly) recycles some major characters from his "Without Warning" trilogy and plunks them into the Emberverse (while relying on you having read his books, so he doesn't need to provide any real backstory for the old characters in the new setting). This, after Stirling made him King of the Bogans in the Emberverse? F-, Birmo. Bad show.
 

Reads-By-Lamplight

For me it's the part where, within literally two generations, every society on the continent and, from what we hear of other places, the world has started actively repressing any sort of representative government. Hell even the Mackenzies who have their "Oh he totally wasn't born into the role of being the king we picked him for it even though it was never in question and our younger generation has no fucking clue what it's like to live in a world where one persons voice actually can have an effect on world events without them having to kill a couple hundred people" thing was really creepy. Also as someone who has lived in Iowa for twenty odd years now I can tell you that the whole Vaki's thing is bullshit. Even in 1998 there were thousands if not tens of people who knew how to farm in the cities of Iowa and I for one would be really goddamned surprised if anyone thought that owning a farm right just now would actually confer some sort of leadership status on them in the event of the apocalypse. Hell half the population of Des Moines today is at most one to two generations away from being a farm family. Also as has been stated above. There is not a single person in Iowa who would willingly call the Governor "Bossman." We'd call him the governor. One more thing. Where the hell is Nebraska in all of this? They have nearly as much if not more agriculture than Iowa and the agronomy and both states have state run universities with well known agriculture programs. The republics of Nebraska and Iowa should be kicking so much ass it's not even funny. They would certainly have the population base for it.

Also I apologize about my rant.
 

Faeelin

Banned
Reads-By-Lamplight said:
The republics of Nebraska and Iowa should be kicking so much ass it's not even funny. They would certainly have the population base for it.

Also I apologize about my rant.
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Read the ISOT series, where New England democracy overthrows god kings under the command of a black lesbian.
 

Art

One of the things I liked about it. . .

Was that there was an Anglo-Saxon region, not just a Norse-inspired region in Maine/Canada. Although I think they would be Christian, not Old Saxon Pagan. Not that I have anything against Paganism.
 
theg*ddam*hoi2fan

theg*ddam*hoi2fan

It still surprises me that there's a united Britain run from England here. Especially given that England would have to be carried far more than Scotland and Wales...

It would've been cool to have Scotland and a restored Principality of Gwynedd (now all Wales) teaming up with Ireland. Because let's face it, they'd have been better positioned to make it through the Change intact...
 

Tiro

The only problem with that idea is that Scotland's major population centres are even more densely-concentrated than those of England (particularly in the Central Belt); having said that I do believe that Welshmen and Irishmen are less badly off than most in the Changed World, but I don't know if there would be any particular reason for the Welsh to tie themselves to the Republic politically (as opposed to commercially).

If nothing else Union with Great Britain has the benefit of familiarity, the sense of continuity that I suspect would be a mighty comfort in the drastically-altered Changed World … which isn't to say that there remains no possibility of the Celtic Portions of the United Kingdom deciding to go their own way (possibly in collusion with those neighbours on the Emerald Isle), but I think that at least in the short term it makes more sense for the Survivors to take refuge from trauma in the relatively-familiar than it would be to chase some sort of unprecedented constitutional development.
 

Meatshield

If anyone has been keeping up with the new book (Desert and the Blade)...



....the Emberverse now features actual physical combat magic. Not just the stuff affecting the Central Nervous System that we've seen before.
 

Lateknight

Banned
Meatshield said:
If anyone has been keeping up with the new book (Desert and the Blade)...



....the Emberverse now features actual physical combat magic. Not just the stuff affecting the Central Nervous System that we've seen before.
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I checked out after the last book. Turns out my loyalty to a series has limits , who know?
 

Meatshield

Actually, this is probably the best book since The Sunrise Lands (a long time ago).


It's a long book (the boatload of sample chapters constitutes maybe a quarter of the actual book), and a lot of stuff happens. Actual events, rather than the "Characters go There, meet Him, Go elsewhere, then enjoy a dinner" of the last two books.


There's only one or two small instances of characters acting like they are doing stuff purely because they read the Plot, and know they will end up doing it anyway (the Havel Twins going out of their way to let Orlaith & Co. escape Mathilda's recall orders is one, and feels really forced).
98% of the character actions are Stirling writing at his best. Even the inevitable "Let me tell you why you are going to become part of Montival" scenes* are actually realistic (i.e. they aren't just signing up because the Writer demands it, but because of internally-consistent reasons already in the narrative).

The "Death Zones" continue to be retconned into "Mostly Death Zones". This is good.

The Empress is Best Character.




Bottom line, Stirling is back on form with this book. If you've previously dropped the series, you should really consider giving this book a chance. It's a lot more like the first 3-4 books than the last few, and it no longer feels like Orlaith & Co. are just retreading the original Quest.


Grade: B+/A-







*-which were a blight on the last two Rudi-era books, as independent states are basically hypnotized into swearing allegiance to Rudi, regardless of whether it made sense in the narrative.
 
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Meatshield

Thinking back over the books....


...there are some characters who have never actually been given names.

Signe & Mike's second set of twins.
Signe's bastard son/daughter (via Bjarne....which is awkward, since he was cheating on his wife).
 

TheScottishMongol

Banned
So, any new nations/people/survivors mentioned? What scope does the book cover? Do we get to visit Australia/the Pacific again? Just curious. I might pick up the book next time I pass by the bookstore, but my interest in the series has admittedly waned.

As to the non-named characters thing, that's just more of Stirling dropping the Bearkillers in favor of focusing on the Mackenzies.
 

Tsar of New Zealand

Zek Sora said:
Lol no. Stirling lost me at Golden Princess. :rolleyes:
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You're more determined than me; I checked out around The Scourge of God when all the magical crap started flowing rather than filtering in. Past that I just read out of a masochistic desire to get angry at how irritatingly perfect Rudi is :p aaand gave up altogether at The High King of Montival.

The magic-fighting stuff just confirms I won't even bother with the new ones. A post-apocalyptic story has turned into (gah) fantasy.
 

Meatshield

TheScottishMongol said:
So, any new nations/people/survivors mentioned? What scope does the book cover? Do we get to visit Australia/the Pacific again?
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SPOILERS














The Participatory Democracy of Topanga.*
Chatsworth Lancers (low-rent PPA/Bearkiller/CORA setup).*
Emyn Muir Dunedain.
Kingdom of Esmeraldas (NW Coast of Ecuador).
Eretz Bnei Yaakov (Semi-Nomadic Jewish clans in the Mojave Desert).
Zanzibar is mentioned.

The narrative doesn't leave the main Questline, unlike in the previous book, so no glimpses of anywhere else. It does look like the next book will be more wide-ranging, since Orlaith and Reiko are now set to gear up for the Pacific War.



*-both were introduced in the Change anthology.
 
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