Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by TheScottishMongol, Jun 5, 2013.
The Emberverse, CY 50
Why isn't Vancouver island ever settled? Because of Victoria or Haida raids? combination of both?
Vancouver Island and most of southern BC are claimed and settled by the PPA. There's mentions of the PPA fighting the Dominion of Moose Jaw for control of the Peace River country.
Oh perfect, well the map has Vancouver island as completely unsettled! Have you thought about adding all the info from his new collection of short stories?
Why would the English go for Continental Europe before securing all of Ireland? And what about Scottish and Welsh separatism?
Aye, as soon as I read all of them.
I thought this was about City of Ember .-.
Ireland came through the Change "relatively" well off (i.e. only ~75 in 100 people died, rather than 95 in 100), and there are three actual governments on the island (Republic of Shannon, an IRA-led nationalist state, and an Orange Order/Military junta nominally under Prince Andrew that is nominally a part of the UK). At the "current time", the Irish slightly outnumber the British (but aren't in a position to pressure the UK).
So Ireland (well, 2/3rds of it) isn't up for grabs. Mainland Europe (West of Italy and the Rhine) is essentially unpopulated*. Britain already has a forward operating base (Gibraltar), right after the Change.
*-that may change, slightly, Stirling seems to be in the process of showing that very few regions were (contrary to popular thought in Oregon and Britain) totally depopulated, and various "Everyone Here Died"-zones are revealed to have small-but-thriving population centers (Japan, Coastal California, Maine, etc).
I get it, the Irish have a genetic predisposition towards Riverdance and disunity!
Not really. It's just that post-Change Ireland (the island, not the country) has three* power-clusters, right out of the gate: The British Army garrison and NI local government aligned with the Army (read: Loyalists/Orangemen), some chunk of the Republic's government that survives the collapse of Dublin, and some faction of krazy Marxist Sinn Fein/IRA guys.
We literally know nothing more than that.
It's not really very honest to imply that Stirling indulges in Paddybashing.
If anything, the fact that the Republic of Shannon manages to maintain a continuity of government through the Change (i.e. the Republic of Shannon is, in fact, a continuation of the Republic of Ireland)...puts it way, way out in front of almost every other nation on the planet (including the UK, which totally lost all forms of democratic continuity, with the country only gradually emerging from a military junta, with the Monarch as a fig-leaf fictionally symbolizing continuity that didn't actually exist).
*-the UK, in comparison, only has one (two, if you count Prince Andrew and the Ulster milgov as part of the UK, which the narrative implies isn't really the case)....since everyone else died. The Isle of Wight was the only functional survivor cluster, with the (much smaller) Isles up north immediately subordinating themselves to the Colonels on Wight. In Ireland, none of the three major survivor clusters was ever (not ever) going to bow to either of the others, for practical and/or political reasons. So Ireland ends up hosting three states.
Okay, a little over halfway through the book, quick checklist of new nations.
The Cree Alliance, Northern B.C. and Alberta
The Hobart Collective, southern Alaska
The Coalition, central Florida
The Federated Kingdom, Chihuahua
The the Louisiana Federation, and the City of Athens, both part of the Gulf Coast Coalition.
The Venetian are most likely separate from the Umbrian League, they've snatched up Rhodes. Crete is not part of the new Hellenic League, and in fact they're very bad news.
Topanga and the Chatsworth Lancers, the darkhorse survivors of South California! There are probably other survivors scattered around, too.
Only a few stories to go, new map will follow.
Britain is led by a mystical king who becomes emperor of the west. The Republic of Ireland breaks up so that the Sinn Fein, in 1997, takes over a piece of it so we get the medieval trope of divided Ireland back again.
I assume the Irish do not end up mounting their own expeditions to the continent, even though they ostensibly have more continuity in government?
Yeah, it does look like Stirling took all the objections to his "clean sweep" death zones to heart, and is now filling in a few areas with small states. Or the entire idea of whole regions with absolutely zero civilized survivors was just a function of the POV characters having limited info.
Dude....that is possibly the most invidious reading imaginable of what Stirling has written about Emberverse Ireland (which may total up to 3 paragraphs).
Given that Ireland currently hosts two nations, and was only ever united under the British...."divided Ireland" is hardly a mediaeval trope (hell, it predates the mediaeval period by a millennia).
Nor is Britain led by a "mystical king" (Willie Rex seems to be utterly mundane....especially in a world where Rudi McKenzie is running around)...and he's only Emperor of the West because the Pope wanted to coopt the UK (him being Emperor, essentially an empty title, obligates him to do stuff benefiting the Umbrian League that he might not ordinarily do....and also reunites a big chunk of Christianity in one fell swoop).
Seriously, you are reading things into the text that just aren't there.
Aside from the nations I mentioned before, there aren't a lot of others that we haven't seen yet. The Acoma and Apache pulled through, along with a collection of ranchers in New Mexico north of the Pecos.
Overall, not a lot of major changes RE: the world map. A few little spots here and there that pulled through, but they come from some very surprising places.
I wonder how Britain did so well, England is just as much an urbanized trap as Japan, right?
Not so much - Japan has nearly double our population but Britain is 2/3 the size of Japan(ish). Japan is a lot more mountainous too. Some parts of the UK are densely populated while others are pretty empty.
I'm impressed at the Mongols. Then again, Mongolia is a large country with a small population and a lot of people do live in a quasi-traditional way of life there (a ger with a smart phone is still a still a ger) and they've decided to try to make Genghis proud it seems.
I still see zero reason why the British of all people get to claim the US Eastern Seaboard. Or for that matter, why the "Death Zone" covering the East coast covered damned near the entire Eastern Seaboard.
There should have been at least some remnant states organized around Appalachia - its sparsely populated, mostly self-sufficient, and enough military bases in the area to offer leadership and supplies if need be.
Well, a lot of people survived up in the Appalachians, but you're right in that there's no organized state.
I don't see why Britain should get the East Coast either, except as a big middle finger to history. They've already got North Africa and Continental Europe, what do they need North America for? All they got out of it was conflict with the Corsairs of Senegal over salvage rights.
Note that, in the text, it's stated that Britain's claim to the Eastern Seaboard (south of PEI, anyway) is very, very theoretical....and is last mentioned (chronologically) in a period that can be described as "early days". As of the end of the CUT War (last time we heard what the UK was doing), exactly zero UK subjects lived on the East Coast, outside of PEI.
Things won't start settling down until the populations rebound to something resembling carrying capacity (given the modern agricultural, engineering, and medical knowledge of the Emberverse....that capacity is a lot higher than it was in Mediaeval Times, so populations could climb into late 19th-Century/Early 20th-Century levels). Until then, pretty much everything is "for now", and up for grabs.
Look how long "The Meeting" lasted, before "Montival" was fused together, and claimed the entire Pacific Coast to the Rockies.....despite not actually having anyone in the area (which was the entire point of the Westria Project).
IOW, the Norrheimers could turn their attentions SouthEast, and quickly come to dominate the Mid-Atlantic coast, no matter what the UK did. There could be an expanding local power in the SouthEast that eventually claims the coastline up to the Chesapeake. Or Iowa might decide to nip things in the bud, and assemble a coalition to secure the East Coast, before the UK can successfully colonize the area.
Or the Emir in Dakar might wish to extend the protection of Islam to the benighted peoples of the East Coast .
TL;DR: It's only ~50 years since the Change. A lot of the "permanent" things are actually just transitory, and drawing a straight line trend out to CY 200 is really deceptive.
Separate names with a comma.