Elizabeth II/I of England and Scotland in 1619

what would of happened if King James I and his son Charles had died in the winter of 1619, shortly after Elizabeth of Bohemia's husband became King of Bohemia?
 
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Winter King of England. :eek:

Well, the short answer is that England gets sucked down into ttehe vortex that was Germany at this point; they probably take a bit of a beating from Spain. Course, if and when France comes in they'll be on the winning side, but it's a long wait...
 
Crown Union of Scotland England Ireland and Bohemia? can it happen? with English power at their back can the Winter King and Queen hold on to the Crown of Bohemia?
 
hehe, finally. I've been waiting for this TL to appear on this forum; I find it fascinating. With a stronger Protestant faction, I reckon we could see Frederick being restored to the Palatinate - the whole Palatinate - in the ensuing peace treaty. If you follow the line of successive OTL Counts Palatine, by about 1685 the inheritor is the Catholic Count of the Palatinate-Neuburg (and Duke of Julich-Berg) which with a little stretch of the imagination but surely no ASB could lead to another Act of Succession denying the Catholics the throne. If we then backtrack to the nearest Protestant heir, the new King (or rather, Queen) is...you guessed it...Sophia, Electress of Hanover, leading to the quite brilliantly awesome England-Scotland-Ireland-Hanover-Bohemia-Palatinate Personal Union. On top of that, the heir presumptive (in 1685) and I believe the OTL successor to the Duke of Julich-Berg became the Duchess of Orleans in around that period - she who caused the War of the Palatine Succession. Thus, with only a tiny bit of tweaking, by the year 1700 you have a King of England who claims to be the rightful King of France and a King of France who claims to be the rightful King of England. :D

It's stuff like this which makes me love this period, and include this very POD in my all-time favourite "how the world would look coolest" POD collection.
 
hehe, finally. I've been waiting for this TL to appear on this forum; I find it fascinating. With a stronger Protestant faction, I reckon we could see Frederick being restored to the Palatinate - the whole Palatinate - in the ensuing peace treaty. If you follow the line of successive OTL Counts Palatine, by about 1685 the inheritor is the Catholic Count of the Palatinate-Neuburg (and Duke of Julich-Berg) which with a little stretch of the imagination but surely no ASB could lead to another Act of Succession denying the Catholics the throne. If we then backtrack to the nearest Protestant heir, the new King (or rather, Queen) is...you guessed it...Sophia, Electress of Hanover, leading to the quite brilliantly awesome England-Scotland-Ireland-Hanover-Bohemia-Palatinate Personal Union. On top of that, the heir presumptive (in 1685) and I believe the OTL successor to the Duke of Julich-Berg became the Duchess of Orleans in around that period - she who caused the War of the Palatine Succession. Thus, with only a tiny bit of tweaking, by the year 1700 you have a King of England who claims to be the rightful King of France and a King of France who claims to be the rightful King of England. :D

there's a key flaw in your thinking, if the POD is 1619 Sophia is never born, and never marries Ernest Augustus, Elector of Hanover, so Hanover never becomes part of the Personal Union, any way the heir would be Frederick Henry von der Pfalz, who doesn't drown in 1629 thanks to butterflies. anyway german Salic law a woman couldn't take any Crown in Germany, also the kings of England/Great Britain claimed to be the kings of France from 1340 to 1801 (the Jacobites still use it)
 
I love this idea. First because Frederick the Elector Palatine and Elizabeth are absolutely awesome. Next because their children are awesome. And third because yes it totally reshuffles the Thirty Years War.

Essentially after the Battle of the White Mountain in 1620 James was willing to give a little help to the German Protestants, but really with Brandenburg and Saxony on the sidelines, and with the weakness of the military talent the Protestants were putting up against Wallenstein, the situation was hopelessly out of balance.

That said though, it's entirely possible a stronger Protestant hand (primarily England intervening in full force) would persuade Ferdinand to compromise somewhat, permitting for instance "A let's forget the whole thing ever happened" peace in which Frederick would get the Palatinate back and cede his claim to Bohemia and the Electorship. There would be Holy Roman constitutional precedent for such a resolution, in that the Elector Frederick John of Saxony (real history, here) suffered the imperial ban as Frederick von Pfalz did and was imprisoned, but later allowed to retake some of his lands.

Other factors supporting a negotiated peace in this scenario include the flimsiness of Brandenburg and Saxony's ties to the Emperor: their willingness to support his policies are essentially tied to the degree they believe his victory is a sure thing, and once a foreign power enters the fray (like Gustavus II Adolphus) they can switch sides fairly quickly.

But in the end the Wittelsbachs just seem appealing as an English royal house. 13 children, including sons Frederick, Charles and Rupert, and daughter Sophie, the mother of our timeline's George I. And Charles' daughter is Elizabeth Charlotte the future wife of the Duke d'Orleans. If as in real history Frederick were to die and Charles would become king, Elizabeth Charlotte would be the Princess Royal and could conceivably be married not to the duc but to Louis XIV! And there is one thing that could be cooler than that:

King Rupert. I'm all Stewie Griffin over the idea of King Rupert.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Rupert_of_the_Rhine
 
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