Elizabeth II has a brother

[VVD0D95]

Just a very quick question. Before his marriage to Queen Elizabeth, Prince Philip took the name Mountbatten abd was created duke of Edinburgh etc. Which seems appropriate given he was marrying the heir to the throne.

but what if Elizabeth wasn’t the heir? What if she had a brother who was prince of Wales, would Philip still need to change his name and be created a duke?
I suppose given he’s marrying royalty being created in the peerage makes sense. Especially as Elizabeth is arill
Second in line to the throne.

what are everyone’s thoughts?

 

[Lalli]

I bit doubt that Philip would get ducal title. Aren't these only created for male descedants of monarchs? I think that princesses Margaret and Anne's husbands didn't get any ducal titles. But at least Margaret's husband became earl. Not sure Anne's husbands.

 

[VVD0D95]

I bit doubt that Philip would get ducal title. Aren't these only created for male descedants of monarchs? I think that princesses Margaret and Anne's husbands didn't get any ducal titles. But at least Margaret's husband became earl. Not sure Anne's husbands.

Anne’s husband refused a title in the peerage.

 

[aaa]

Practically the entire Battenberg family in Britain anglicized their name, so Philip would’ve done so regardless.

As regards to his peerage, he probably would’ve received a lesser title, perhaps an earldom. The Dukedom of Edinburgh is a royal dukedom usually set aside for blood members of the royal family, but it was given to him since he was marrying the heiress to the throne. Since his wife would be second in line here, the position offered to Philip would probably be a less prominent one.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Just a very quick question. Before his marriage to Queen Elizabeth, Prince Philip took the name Mountbatten abd was created duke of Edinburgh etc. Which seems appropriate given he was marrying the heir to the throne.

but what if Elizabeth wasn’t the heir? What if she had a brother who was prince of Wales, would Philip still need to change his name and be created a duke?
I suppose given he’s marrying royalty being created in the peerage makes sense. Especially as Elizabeth is arill
Second in line to the throne.

what are everyone’s thoughts?

It seems unlikely in the scenario you are suggesting that Prince Philip of Greece would have had to become Mr Mountbatten to marry the second in line with little prospect of her actually succeeding bar some tragedy.
If the Prince of Wales was married and had children of his own I think it would have been a complete non-issue and even if the Prince of Wales was younger than Elizabeth and likely unmarried, I still think George VI, a traditionalist in every sense, would have preferred his grandchildren through his oldest daughter to have the style and title of HRH Prince/Princess of Greece and Denmark, to which they would be automatically entitled.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

I bit doubt that Philip would get ducal title. Aren't these only created for male descedants of monarchs? I think that princesses Margaret and Anne's husbands didn't get any ducal titles. But at least Margaret's husband became earl. Not sure Anne's husbands.

The precedent seemed to have been established by Princess Alexandra's husband, who declined an earldom in 1963, two years after Princess Margaret's husband had accepted one.
Of course Prince Philip of Greece was quite distinct from any of the husbands of princesses who followed him as he had a royal title in his own right (Princess Alexandra's husband Hon Angus Oglivy was the most noble but even he was only the second son of an Earl and so could not transmit a title to his children, although his son and grandson are in line to the Earldom of Airlie) and could pass that to his children automatically.

 

[CalBear]

Just a very quick question. Before his marriage to Queen Elizabeth, Prince Philip took the name Mountbatten abd was created duke of Edinburgh etc. Which seems appropriate given he was marrying the heir to the throne.

but what if Elizabeth wasn’t the heir? What if she had a brother who was prince of Wales, would Philip still need to change his name and be created a duke?
I suppose given he’s marrying royalty being created in the peerage makes sense. Especially as Elizabeth is arill
Second in line to the throne.

what are everyone’s thoughts?

Well, the rest of the Family changed to Mountbatten during WW I at the same time as the Royal Family changed the name of its House to Windsor. He brother, Earl Mountbatten of Burma, aka Lord Mountbatten/Last Viceroy of India right up until the IRA assassinated him, served under that name in the RN from 1916 until 1965.

 

[VVD0D95]

It seems unlikely in the scenario you are suggesting that Prince Philip of Greece would have had to become Mr Mountbatten to marry the second in line with little prospect of her actually succeeding bar some tragedy.
If the Prince of Wales was married and had children of his own I think it would have been a complete non-issue and even if the Prince of Wales was younger than Elizabeth and likely unmarried, I still think George VI, a traditionalist in every sense, would have preferred his grandchildren through his oldest daughter to have the style and title of HRH Prince/Princess of Greece and Denmark, to which they would be automatically entitled.

This is very true, would make for interesting conversation I’m sure. Tho may make Philip less jealous than he apparently was otl of having to give up his name

Well, the rest of the Family changed to Mountbatten during WW I at the same time as the Royal Family changed the name of its House to Windsor. He brother, Earl Mountbatten of Burma, aka Lord Mountbatten/Last Viceroy of India right up until the IRA assassinated him, served under that name in the RN from 1916 until 1965.

this is true tho, changing ones name when marrying the heir is quire different to changing it when marrying rhe spare no?

 

[CalBear]

This is very true, would make for interesting conversation I’m sure. Tho may make Philip less jealous than he apparently was otl of having to give up his name

this is true tho, changing ones name when marrying the heir is quire different to changing it when marrying rhe spare no?

Not if it has long since been done.

Now, the renunciation of his paper titles, especially in Greece, is a different issue.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Not if it has long since been done.

Now, the renunciation of his paper titles, especially in Greece, is a different issue.

But they weren't paper titles.
Greece was a monarchy in 1947, an unstable one yes but a monarchy nonetheless and frankly the idea that a Greek prince had to renounce his title (and succession rights) to marry a daughter of the British King who wasn't even the heir is just a bit odd.
I am reminded of a comment attributed to the former Princess Patricia of Connaught, later Lady Patricia Ramsey to Princess Margaret when she contemplated walking away from royal life to marry Group Capt. Townsend - "things are never quite the same" after walking away from a royal life https://writeroyalty.com/princess-patricia-a-royal-trendsetter/.
Remember in this scenario that Prince Philip and Princess Elizabeth of Greece and Denmark would likely live abroad for a significantly longer period - after their marriage they lived briefly in Malta while the Prince tried to maintain his military career. I anticipate where Elizabeth was not heir that the Prince would have stayed in the Navy until the late 50s or early 60s and Princess Elizabeth would be much less known at that point having been absent from the UK for long periods.

 

[VVD0D95]

Not if it has long since been done.

Now, the renunciation of his paper titles, especially in Greece, is a different issue.

Hmm interesting

But they weren't paper titles.
Greece was a monarchy in 1947, an unstable one yes but a monarchy nonetheless and frankly the idea that a Greek prince had to renounce his title (and succession rights) to marry a daughter of the British King who wasn't even the heir is just a bit odd.
I am reminded of a comment attributed to the former Princess Patricia of Connaught, later Lady Patricia Ramsey to Princess Margaret when she contemplated walking away from royal life to marry Group Capt. Townsend - "things are never quite the same" after walking away from a royal life https://writeroyalty.com/princess-patricia-a-royal-trendsetter/.
Remember in this scenario that Prince Philip and Princess Elizabeth of Greece and Denmark would likely live abroad for a significantly longer period - after their marriage they lived briefly in Malta while the Prince tried to maintain his military career. I anticipate where Elizabeth was not heir that the Prince would have stayed in the Navy until the late 50s or early 60s and Princess Elizabeth would be much less known at that point having been absent from the UK for long periods.

and oh interesting, you don’t think he’d have been able to continue until a natural retirement?

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Hmm interesting

and oh interesting, you don’t think he’d have been able to continue until a natural retirement?

Well the Duke turned 40 in 1961 and the two men of the current royal family who made the military their career, the Dukes of York and Kent both left around the time they turned 40.
Unless you are going to get promoted to the top brass (and I don't think we can really speculate about the prospects of that as it isn't guaranteed, no matter if the King is your brother-in-law), I think there tends to be a cut off, especially for royal men. I also think knowing what we know about the Queen, she would have longed for a home in the English/Scottish countryside, not trailing around foreign military bases.

 

[VVD0D95]

Well the Duke turned 40 in 1961 and the two men of the current royal family who made the military their career, the Dukes of York and Kent both left around the time they turned 40.
Unless you are going to get promoted to the top brass (and I don't think we can really speculate about the prospects of that as it isn't guaranteed, no matter if the King is your brother-in-law), I think there tends to be a cut off, especially for royal men. I also think knowing what we know about the Queen, she would have longed for a home in the English/Scottish countryside, not trailing around foreign military bases.

Ah I see will be an interesting thing to explore