As wife of Louis XII. As was originally planned. Would being married to a LESS beautiful princess (Eleonore wasn't ugly but she's no Mary Tudor) mean Louis lives longer? Maybe has kids? What does this mean for Habsburg-French relations (since I'd imagine this would remove her from being a likely second wife for François I)?
Eleonore of Austria, Queen of France
- Thread starter Kellan Sullivan
- Start date
Francis still marries Claude of France, and serves as regent to his stepbrother-in-law until her death in 20 July 1524 and then marries Eleanor.
Eleanor of Austria “France’s Royal Mother” (15/11/1498–25/2/1558) m. 1514, A) Louis XII (27 June 1462 – 1/1/1515) 1524, B) 12 September 1494 – 31 March 1547)
1a) Charles IX (born 18/9/1514-) m. Princess Mary of England (18/2/1516-)
2a) Princess Maria “the post humorous” (30/6/1515-) m. James V (10/4/1512–)
3b) Philp d'Orléans, Count of Angoulême, (9/11/1525-)
Why wouldn't Louis live longer? He died 3 months AFTER he wed Mary Tudor. Of exertions in the bedroom. Give him a wife who DOESN'T look like Mary does and maybe he'll be...less enthusiastic. (In a discussion where he wed Bona Sforza it was suggested he'd last until 1517/1518).
That François would. It's been agreed since 1505/1507 , so barring Claude predeceasing her dad, such a match WILL happen.
I do NOT want to be the canon lawyers who will have to deal with THAT particular headache. Under church law, Eleonore would be François' mom (not mom-in-law). Don't you think João III would've tried this once his dad died, rather than wait for Eleonore's younger sister?
Plus, the minute Eleonore remarries she'd lose the regency for her son (if she has one). No kid or a daughter, means that Eleonore gets sent back to Karl V (like Portugal did with her OTL). OTOH if she HAS a son, François d'Angoulême is the biggest enemy - this kid is the James V to his duke of Albany as it were - and François has Brittany not to mention the Angoulême lands PLUS he's Connetable/Lieutenant of France. I DOUBT he'll slink back to Amboise or Nantes quietly.
Well Eleanor OTL was João’s own stepmother (and mother of his half-sister) not the stepmother of his (deceased) wife... Canon laws or not the latter would be more acceptable (plus a dispensation for that would be easier to get).
In such situation aka Eleanor/Mary is the Dowager Queen of France with a son she would be regent for the underage King. François would be the first prince of the Kingdom and the heir presuntive but will not have the rule of the Kingdom over the Dowager Queen (unless she remarried).
If Claude died then a wedding between the Queen Regent and François would be seen as a good compromise between factions...
Think to the Duke of Orleans (aka the future Louis XII) during Charles VIII’s minority for comparison (the situation would be much alike)...
Plus if Anne of Brittany had died earlier or was unavailable for Louis XII (either as King or Duke of Orleans) I suspect he would have most likely remarried to Louise of Savoy
So what would happen with other daughters of Joanna the Mad? Isabella is going to Portugal, Mary to Denmark, Catherine to Hungary?
That would have interesting consequences, considering the fact, that Mary was likely sterile.
So would Isabella marry Manuel or João? If Manuel-whom would João marry in such case?
krieger
Banned
Louis II of Hungary was a retard, but he had a bastard. So the lack of children was clearly Mary's fault. If he gets a son the things will certainly get interesting. Zapolya will strive to be named a regent for young King, but will his faction achieve success? King isn't a feared Habsburg.
No. Mary was already engaged in Hungary (and she is the only one who was ever proposed for that match as Catalina is under the custody of her mother/maternal grandfather not under the one of her paternal aunt and grandfather. Isabella also will most likely be married in Denmark as Ferdinand of Aragon was still alive when her match was decided (and a match with Portugal for Eleanor was taken in consideration most likely only after his death)
Catalina will be the one married in Portugal and to João.
OTL Eleanor was still free because her bethrotal (to Henry VIII) was set aside and other proposal for her were not realized (Louis XII, Francis of Angoulême, Sigismund I of Poland and Antoine of Lorraine) before a match with João was taken in consideration and then the wedding to Manuel agreed.
The Danish match was left to Isabella as Eleanor, being the eldest daughter, was too important for it (plus in that timeframe they were most likely trying to marry Eleanor to Louis XII)
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It was not decided yet if Louis would marry Mary or Catherine. And decision to marry Vladislaus' kids to Max' grandkids (also it was not decided if it would be Charles or Ferdinand) was only made in 1515 during First Congress of Vienna. So after death of Ferdinand of Aragon Charles would likely offer Mary to Manuel or João if Isabella is already married to Christian. Louis is younger, he could wait.
You are sure? I knew who Louis was engaged to Mary and Anne’s match was undecided (because Charles do not wished it and Ferdinand was under the custody of his other grandfather so Maximilian said also he would have married Anne himself if he had not an available grandson)
Plus Mary was promised to Louis first in March 1506 (yes, before his birth, at the same time in which the mutual succession and Anna’s engagement to a grandson of Max were decided) and in any case they were married in 1515 (when Anna’s engagement to a still unspecified grandson was confirmed and Maximilian proposed himself as groom if neither grandson agreed to the match in a year) so before a Portuguese match was needed and agreed.
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We might see one of the Bavarian nieces of Maximilian marrying Christian of Denmark instead.
Max and Charles often disagreed about marriages of their granddaughters/sisters. For Charles Portugal is more important than Hungary, he would push for Mary + Manuel match. At the time of Ferdinand of Aragon's death nothing was set in stone.
Mary was married to her long time bethroted in 1515 (and sent in Austria ahead of said wedding in 1514) so before Ferdinand of Aragon’s death and in any case after refusing to marry Anne, Charles is not in position to broke his sister’s engagement. Plus in case she was available Mary would be way too young for Manuel and so would marry João.
With Eleanor married in France the only sister who Charles would have available in 1516/1517 is Catalina (who will be married to João). At this point Charles either had already married Mary Tudor (the OTL Queen of France) or would be more or less forced to marry Isabella of Portugal (the match who Manuel wanted most OTL) as the simple bethrotal of Catalina to João would not be enough for securing Portugal’s alliance.
If Manuel need another wife the most likely options would be Germaine of Foix or Mary Tudor (if she had not married Charles)
Pretty unlikely as OTL Christian asked for Eleanor and was offered Isabella (and here he will ask directly for Isabella).