Realistically Sealion was basically impossible without asb but hypothetically about if they had ekhronoplanes the channel is only 26 miles so the extra fuel consumption shouldn't effect them as much?
Ekhronoplanes effect on operation sea lion
- Thread starter Munrojock2
- Start date
I'm not sure it makes all that much difference - the majority of them are nowhere near big enough to keep a substantial Heer/SS force in southern England supplied (or to land them there in the first place) and most of them seem to be slow enough (350mph and down top speed) to be intercepted by Spitfire/Hurricane or hit with AA fire from the weapons in use by the RN and the British Army at the time.
I dont know I know some engineer's involved in them have said they could provide advantages for cargo but no lear jets would mean any possible vehicle would be limited in the 40s
The 'trick' with the ground effect is: such vehicles are much more efficient in carrying cargo than 'usual' planes thereby enabling them of relativly much higher payloads.
How long would it actually take to show up for the Spitfires/huccicanes on the spot ?
Said effect was already known in the twenties and seemingly there were also a number of scientific works about to be 'collected' in the mid thirties.
IF ... some engineer or even engineering company might dig already during the twenties or early thirties into the matter with their prototypes looked upon internatiinally rather as some kinda 'freak concept' only to be picked up during the mid thirties by some ... naval airforce or air force or ... military official ...
I could imagine some kind of Ekranoplane-aequivalent not in the 150 or even 500 ton class but perhaps in a 20 to 40 ton class with a payload of 10 to 15 tons (somewhere the capacity between a Me 323 and 321 Gigant) available "in time".
Sounds like a payload interesting enough for some kind of - maybe smaller - Dieppe Raid or several raids in preparation for some bigger landing.
However ... OFC we all know that any kind of landing on the british main isle post hastings is per definitionem ASB.
... well, yeah, anything below OTL D-Day capacities is rendered unworthy to be considered here around
... I just wonder ... with a flying time of about 10 minutes across the channel ... well below possible radar detection (due to low flying 'ceiling' of some 5 perhaps 12 meters (the 'Caspian Sea Monster' though designed for a flying at about 3 meters was found to be most efficient at 20 m)) ... therefore being detected only if in eysight of the coast maybe at dawn, evenming or even night ...
How long would it actually take to show up for the Spitfires/huccicanes on the spot ?
I dont render jets as propulsion a sine qua non only because all larger ground-effekt-vehicles of OTL ('Ekranoplanes') were build with. Putting a dozen or perhaps even more engines on top of a plane wasn't something 'new' for german engineers. One 'postive' of ground effekt vehicles is, that the main power is 'only' needed at the start. Once in flight most of the engines can be shut down.
Said effect was already known in the twenties and seemingly there were also a number of scientific works about to be 'collected' in the mid thirties.
IF ... some engineer or even engineering company might dig already during the twenties or early thirties into the matter with their prototypes looked upon internatiinally rather as some kinda 'freak concept' only to be picked up during the mid thirties by some ... naval airforce or air force or ... military official ...
I could imagine some kind of Ekranoplane-aequivalent not in the 150 or even 500 ton class but perhaps in a 20 to 40 ton class with a payload of 10 to 15 tons (somewhere the capacity between a Me 323 and 321 Gigant) available "in time".
Sounds like a payload interesting enough for some kind of - maybe smaller - Dieppe Raid or several raids in preparation for some bigger landing.
However ... OFC we all know that any kind of landing on the british main isle post hastings is per definitionem ASB.
If they can't be tracked by radar then you can shove trawlers or other small craft in the Channel with radios to report them in (or even a few destroyers on the most likely routes to take pot shots at them as they pass). You only need a handful of aircraft airborne at any one time to intercept them since there's a limited number of places they can heading to.
60s radars couldn't let alone before microwaves are properly understood british radars were best for their time but radars unlikely so line of sight might be required
Firstly, if they're ekhrono-planes, out of time, isoted, then this belongs in ASB.
Secondly, the Wing-in-ground effect depends on wing size. If you want to fly over the ocean where waves can easily be 3m high, or even 10m, you need to stay above the waves, which means you need a huge plane.
Secondly, the Wing-in-ground effect depends on wing size. If you want to fly over the ocean where waves can easily be 3m high, or even 10m, you need to stay above the waves, which means you need a huge plane.
The Germans wanted to move and try to keep supplied ten divisions. That’s a lot of sealift.
Plenty of RN ships patrolling the Channel and they are monitoring the ports in France so there is no need to worry about radar seeing them early enough. If anything they might know before pilots of the Ekranoplanes do when the date is. Like any of the other ways the Germans are going to transport troops across the sea, you are going to have a target rich environment here.
Well if
Were doing asb pelicans were supposed to be able to carry 3000 menFirstly, if they're ekhrono-planes, out of time, isoted, then this belongs in ASB.
Secondly, the Wing-in-ground effect depends on wing size. If you want to fly over the ocean where waves can easily be 3m high, or even 10m, you need to stay above the waves, which means you need a huge plane.
Basically it would be rebuilding the Dornier Do -X from 1929 and loading it to the max with soldiers. OTL the Do-X barely flew higher than a 100 ft for most of its life anyway.
Of course you'd still have to convince the army, Kriegsmarine AND Luftwaffe to building a load of 12-engined ecranoplanes at a time where even four-engined bombers were considered a waste of resources.
Of course you'd still have to convince the army, Kriegsmarine AND Luftwaffe to building a load of 12-engined ecranoplanes at a time where even four-engined bombers were considered a waste of resources.
And we're not even touching about the biggest challenge:
Under who's control would a fleet of ecranoplanes fall? The Heer (since they are transporting soldiers), the Kriegsmarine (since it's an amphibious operation) or the Luftwaffe since, you know, ecranoPLANES? In the end the UK would have died from boredom waiting for the Nazis to arrive before the Oberkommando finally hammered out a deal that kept Goering from throwing a tantrum 24/7
Under who's control would a fleet of ecranoplanes fall? The Heer (since they are transporting soldiers), the Kriegsmarine (since it's an amphibious operation) or the Luftwaffe since, you know, ecranoPLANES? In the end the UK would have died from boredom waiting for the Nazis to arrive before the Oberkommando finally hammered out a deal that kept Goering from throwing a tantrum 24/7
The biggest is even if everything happens perfectly and Germans land 2 divisions
Then what ?
No way to resupply them , they will be quickly defeated and will surrender
Two divisions even without supply and they have taken the whole island the home islands had less than 1 german division worth of infantry in 41 given time they could call on millions across the empire but britian itself would be defeated long before then
That said britians main role was technical support and the united States and the ussr were the big players on the allied side the Americans for sheer production and the soviets for depth and manpower britian losing the war might actually speed up hitlers defeat without Churchill belief that can win the war with air power
1. This is not true (that the home islands had less than one division worth of infantry).
2. Even if it was, a single division with no supply can't take the whole of Britain. Honestly the home guard would be enough to prevent that.
A division or two with no supply sounds like its advantages vs. an equal (nevermind superior) number of the home guard would quickly become negligible, even under ideal circumstances for the Germans.
Not that much use to say "Oh but they're fully armed" once they run out of ammunition, for example.
Not that much use to say "Oh but they're fully armed" once they run out of ammunition, for example.
Last edited:
To make any difference to Sea Lion your looking at at least 1,000 aircraft able to carry at least 12 ton each. That is an incredibly large aircraft for the time.
I chose 12 ton in order to get the minimum artillery park and vehicles across the Channel and then acheive the required resupply.
A more realistic for the time would by 4 tons so you need 200 per division in use in England. And then you need to unload them and do so rather rapidly.
The Cliffs of Dover restrict the number of places you could unload and the wave height also restricts your ability to land and take off.
I call this impossible.
I chose 12 ton in order to get the minimum artillery park and vehicles across the Channel and then acheive the required resupply.
A more realistic for the time would by 4 tons so you need 200 per division in use in England. And then you need to unload them and do so rather rapidly.
The Cliffs of Dover restrict the number of places you could unload and the wave height also restricts your ability to land and take off.
I call this impossible.