Eisenhower Not Supreme Allied Commander

Field Marshal Drew Pearson

if patton is the commander of 12th army group the war ends 6 months earlier

patton has the stones to crush the falaise pocket even if it means crossing command boundries and stepping on some british and canadian toes

eliminating the pocket destroys the german army of the west

you would quickley see the atlantic port garrisons start surrendering and troops in italy would enter negotiations as well
My scenario was only about how Monty might get back Ground Forces Command, not what Patton would/could do. Avranches was a battle of German armor against the US 30th Infantry (Roosevelt's SS). Thanks to Ultra, they were dug in, ready, and most of all had battleship support. If the arrogance of Market-Garden had seeped in earlier, and Hitler's intuition about the Allies breaking German codes had happened during the early preparation for Avranches, then the Falaise battle does not occur as in OTL. Anyway, with Market-Garden, and the destruction of the American artificial harbors (thanks Kirk/Lee) Patton would have been starved for fuel anyway. Besides, just ask some of our other posters. They'll tell you neither Patton, nor any other American general in WWII Europe could fight their way out of a den of iniquity.:rolleyes:
 
Those two divisions only had 7 thousand men between them... the British 1st Airborne technically outnumbered the entire 2nd SS Panzer Corps at that time. The reason they got chopped up so bad was that they had to fight unsupported by heavy weapons for more days than was possible. The blocking and slowing down of XXX corps allowed Model to bring up reinforcements to crush the 1st Airborne (alone) (including over 100 artillery pieces to root them out of their defensive positions)

I thought it was because only one battalion and change actually GOT to the bridge and had to hold it against the SS? The Allied drop plan was far too arrogant (in terms of them assuming the Germans wouldn't be able to respond on the time scale it would take them to secure the bridge in strength), and had they known there were Panzer divisions in the area, well, they're going to put together a new drop plan in a hurry. The part about having 1st AD's recon jeeps take and hold against armored cars was an outstandingly stupid feature of an outstandingly stupid plan.

Well, either way, remove the defenses on Hell's Highwar OR remove the 2nd SS Panzer Corps, and Market Garden succeeds :p
 
America, America, Uber Alles!

curious why you called the 30th Divison FDR's SS?
The name was given to them BY the SS following the Battle of Avranches. From their perspective, for one infantry division to stop cold the 7th Army (what was left of it) with an SS Panzer spearhead in the lead was something they just didn't see on the Russian Front. But it was a typical kind of fire brigade holding action that an SS division would perform routinely.

The nickname was meant as an honor, a show of respect to worthy opponents. I don't know what the veterans of the 30th thought of it.:p
 
The name was given to them BY the SS following the Battle of Avranches. From their perspective, for one infantry division to stop cold the 7th Army (what was left of it) with an SS Panzer spearhead in the lead was something they just didn't see on the Russian Front. But it was a typical kind of fire brigade holding action that an SS division would perform routinely.

The nickname was meant as an honor, a show of respect to worthy opponents. I don't know what the veterans of the 30th thought of it.:p


there where a couple of allied divisions that nobody wanted a part of

the only allied division specifically mentioned in the OKW war diary was the American 3rd infantry division (audie murphy, iron mike o daniel and a number of other medal of honor winners). The OKW calls it the single best allied division. They never removed their divisional patches, they wanted the German's to know they where up against the "rock of the marne"

the pennsylvania national guard divsion (the bucket of blood keystone) 28th infantry was also particularly feared by the german troops opposing it
 
there where a couple of allied divisions that nobody wanted a part of

the only allied division specifically mentioned in the OKW war diary was the American 3rd infantry division (audie murphy, iron mike o daniel and a number of other medal of honor winners). The OKW calls it the single best allied division. They never removed their divisional patches, they wanted the German's to know they where up against the "rock of the marne"

the pennsylvania national guard divsion (the bucket of blood keystone) 28th infantry was also particularly feared by the german troops opposing it
Sadly, if memory serves, the 28th division was one of(106th) the two divisions that got overrun early in the Bulge. The 106th was surrounded, the 28th curbstomped by overwhelming forces.:(
 

burmafrd

Banned
2 regiments of the 106th were surrounded and had to surrender. The 28th got badly beaten up but was not destroyed. Due to how late it was in the war the 106 was not reformed. Its other regiment was just assigned elsewhere. I am trying to remember what was done about the units taken prisoner on Bataan but I do not think any full US Army divisions were there. So as far as I know the 106th was the only division virtually destroyed in combat that was not reformed.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
So as far as I know the 106th was the only division virtually destroyed in combat that was not reformed.

It's wiki, but it is mentioned that eh 106th was reformed, but with 2 new regiments. However, it no longer saw combat.

The two regiments that were destroyed were reconstituted in France from replacements, and attached to the 66th division in a training status. They would remain that way.
 
Sadly, if memory serves, the 28th division was one of(106th) the two divisions that got overrun early in the Bulge. The 106th was surrounded, the 28th curbstomped by overwhelming forces.:(


They were allready seriously understrength due to getting chopped up in the battle for the hurtgen forrest... the bulge put most of their infantry companies at 200 percent casualties
 
Top