Yeah, that would be a serious aid for China--which is good, it needs help. If the effort that OTL went into the Hump and the Ledo Road goes into improving the Burma Road, and the Burma Road is open throughout the war, KMT forces should be rather better supplied, and you may help with the 1942-1943 Henan famine; at the very least, the KMT may not need to requisition so much grain to feed their soldiers, though corruption and incompetence may erase those benefits, and of course the Japanese may be even harder than IOTL.
Eisenhower in the Pacific: Part 1 The Shoestring Warriors of Luzon
- Thread starter galveston bay
- Start date
I strongly recommend anything by Dunnigan, but the list of "important islands" includes a Easter Egg for fans of 1930s science fiction...
I am fond of that little reference myself ... just south of western New Guinea
Sadly yes... the crew was literally asleep ashore and the Japanese seized it. Not that they got a big prize
2 and 3... sadly no increases in the heavy caliber ammunition supply
anything covered by "Battle at Dawn" (Hawaii,Wake, Guam and Midway) is per that timeline
the short version... Guam is attacked by about half the number of troops it was historically (the Gilbert Island invasion force is diverted to seize it to free up the historical Guam attack force to hit Midway). Basically defended by a company of marines and half a battalion of National Guard (who lack any significant support weapons) they go down as they did historically
Wake Island puts up the same heroic resistance as in OTL and inflicts a few more casualties in the final battle while suffering heavier casualties as well.
Everything else is going as per OTL and will continue to do so for a while as the ripples from the changes from OTL to TTL spread gradually from the Philippines and Hawaii
I seem to recall reading there were local efforts to convert 12" Armour piercing mortar rounds into anti personnel weapons by modifying the fuses. Any chance there could be a slightly better solution to this issue in your time line
I seem to recall reading there were local efforts to convert 12" Armour piercing mortar rounds into anti personnel weapons by modifying the fuses. Any chance there could be a slightly better solution to this issue in your time line
generally speaking as I am not expert enough in that kind of technical field to know what is plausible, I stick with historical capabilities when it comes to weapons
I remember reading about that in "Corregidor: Saga of a Fortress" many years ago. Basically the bursting charge just isn't going to provide all that great a capability although granted it is better than no capability of all.
In this timeline and in OTL how did the Germans view the tactical situation of Japan starting a war with the USA and Great Britain?
A. Are/did the Germans hope that the British would be forced to divert more resources to defend it's Asian empire opening the door for German victory in North Africa?
B. The Americans would not immediately come to Britain's aid. The Americans would be trying to stop the Japanese advance rather than trying to fight the Germans.
C. Just like the Japanese are hoping the Germans will knock out the Russians,Is Hitler is thinking that while the Japanese tie up the Americans he can knock Russia out of war perhaps bring the British to the peace table?
A. Are/did the Germans hope that the British would be forced to divert more resources to defend it's Asian empire opening the door for German victory in North Africa?
B. The Americans would not immediately come to Britain's aid. The Americans would be trying to stop the Japanese advance rather than trying to fight the Germans.
C. Just like the Japanese are hoping the Germans will knock out the Russians,Is Hitler is thinking that while the Japanese tie up the Americans he can knock Russia out of war perhaps bring the British to the peace table?
the short answer to all those questions is 'yes'. In OTL that is exactly what Hitler and the Japanese thought, and so far in this timeline there is nothing to change their minds on that... the Soviet Counteroffensive that changed the game was December 5, way too late for the Japanese to alter their views on how things were going. Even Hitler isn't too worried just yet (at least from what he is telling his generals). So his decision to declare war on the US (and that of Mussolini) happen on schedule as with OTL.
None of them were aware of the "Germany First" decision
It would be interesting if Hitler and company DID know of that decision...
working out the final details of the first 4 days of air action... hope to post later in the week
One thing that the Americans have going for them ITTL, unlike IOTL, is that the P40's from Clark now have the chance to exploit the G3M Nell bomber's (and by extension nearly every Japanese fighter and bonber throughout the war) weaknesses, which was the bomber having no armor whatdoever and no self sealing fuel tanks, and those two combined with .50 cal machine gun rounds from P40's make for a raging aircraft fire. Also, the reason for the massive amounts of bombers in the strike forces was the fact that the bombing sights on the Nell were basically obsolete by 1941, and as a result, the accuracy suffered. The Japanese did a stopgap measure of having massive waves of bombers, but didnt rectify the problem either.
Correct. The burster charge was much smaller in an AP round than in a conventional HC or HE round. This limited its usefulness against soft targets. As you stated, its still better than nothing. I was thinking about this last evening, and wondering how much of a difference it would have made if the magazines had held a large number of HC or HE rounds vice strictly AP. In retrospect, the possibility of a heavy unit forcing its way into the bay seems unlikely compared to ships say of DD size. A 12" HE hit on a DD would have ruined their day IMO.
The Flying Tigers are born
The First Day: Air Battle of Luzon December 8, 1941
As the first formation of 8 P40s climb toward the approaching Japanese bombers flying straight for Clark Field at 20,000 feet, Chennault scrambles the rest of his fighters. He orders them to assemble over Nielson Field and to defend Manila, Nielson and Nichols as well as Cavite. This force is Tiger (8 P40B, 10 P40E) Flight and Captain William Dyess is in command. The 8 P40s (4 P40E, 4 P40B) that were already airborne are Puma (4 P40B, 4 P40E) Flight, while the 12 P40s that Buzz Wagner led earlier and are still refueling at Baguio are Panther Flight (8 P40E, 4 P40B). He orders them to take off as soon as they can and to attack the enemy after they bomb Clark and are retiring.
He also orders every plane that can take off to immediately do so and to remain at low altitude and fly in the direction of Bataan (single engine planes) or to fly to Cebu (the transport aircraft). The patrol bombers are still on patrol and hopefully will not be engaged.
Puma Flight is still climbing as the Japanese bombers and fighters of Raid 1 cross the coast over Dagupan. The Japanese spot the American fighters as they climb and dive to meet them with 18 Zeros. In a short vicious dogfight, American fighter pilots of the 3rd and 17th Pursuit Squadrons learn the hard way what Chennault has been teaching his American Volunteer Group, never dogfight with the Zero. Outnumbered by twice their number of enemy, at a disadvantage as they are climbing while the Zero's are diving, the Americans quickly discover that the Zero have every advantage in a turning battle. Only Puma 3 and Wolf 1 manage to survive, while the other 6 P40s are shot out of the sky (and only two pilots escape from their aircraft). The two survivors are forced to dive away and learn that while they can not dogfight a Zero, they can most definitely out dive one. Both fighters escape but the Americans have lost 6 aircraft and inflicted only minor damage in return.
The remainder of Raid 1, 72 Nell Bombers and 30 Zero fighters approach Clark Field unmolested and flying well above the ability of American anti-aircraft gun fuses to reach them, proceed to level every building and severely crater the runways and aprons. After the 10 minutes of bombing, the Zero fighters then swoop down to strafe. There are 12 P40B, 5 P40E, 1 DC2, 1 DC3, 2 B18 and 2 B10 in revetments or in hangers that were undergoing repair or awaiting vital parts, and not one of them survives the bombing or the 45 minutes of strafing that follows it. American anti-aircraft gunners fight back as best they can but they suffer heavy losses as well, with nearly half of them killed or wounded. Only 3 Zeroes are shot down by flak, while Clark is wrecked as an operational base and along with it the bulk of the repair capability of the Far East Air Force. Personnel casualties are also heavy with nearly 300 men killed or wounded in the attack in spite of slit trenches and foxholes aplenty.
As Clark Field is converted into a hell, the next round is already underway. Japanese Raid 2, with 66 Betty Bombers and 36 Zero fighters had been flying south over the Sierra Madre mountains, which has hidden them from ground observers and radar as well, and they are not spotted until they are mere 25 miles from Nielson Field. General Frank is still in his headquarters building attempting to get through to Clark Field when the bombers arrive. General Chennault is outside by a radio truck when he sees the enemy approaching and well aware of what is coming dives into a slit trench just as the bombs begin to fall. Meanwhile Dyess and Tiger Flight spot the enemy and have just reached their assigned altitude of 25,000 feet when the frantic call from Nielson comes over the radio. An intervening layer of scattered clouds blocks the enemy from sight on their approach and they only spotted when the first puffs of bomb blasts are spotted far below at the airfield.
Japanese bombing is near perfect, utterly destroying most of the buildings on the base and nearly completely destroying the air strip as well. General Frank is seriously wounded and knocked out, while Chennault manages to avoid physical injury although is covered in mud and water. The radar station is completely destroyed, sharing the fate of the radar at Clark, and within the first few hours of the war the Americans are down to one functioning radar facility in the Philippines. Luckily the Japanese are unaware of the facility at Subic Bay or it likely too would have been targeted.
Casualties are severe, as shelters had not yet been constructed at Neilson and over 400 men are killed or wounded and as a command facility the base is effectively destroyed. However the base is spared the heavy strafing that occurred at Clark because as the last bomb falls, Tiger Flight dives on the enemy formation. Dyess orders his fighters to make one pass and to break away and to concentrate on the bombers and ignore the enemy fighters. Captain Dyess had spent several days talking to Chennault about China and Japanese aircraft and he knows that the Dive and Zoom are the proper tactics.
His pilots manage to flame 9 Betty's in their firing pass and American pilots discover first hand that the Betty is a flying gas tank with almost no armor and inadequate fire power. Diving away, his fighters avoid any losses, although several have suffered damage, and the Japanese fighters are in hot but ultimately futile pursuit. Meanwhile the Japanese bombers having completed their run turn away and flee at high speed. The Japanese fighters soon break off, as they are near the end of their range and they head for home as well, while Dyess and his fighters regroup over Bataan.
However Tiger Flight is well out of position when the final Japanese strike, Raid 3, 30 Betty bombers and 21 Zero fighters comes in a few minutes behind Raid 2 having followed the same flight path. This force heads straight for Nichols Field, and with command and control shattered by the effective destruction of Nielson and Clark Fields, no warning is sent and indeed the first inkling of attack is a rain of bombs. On the field in revetments and hangers are 18 A24s, 4 T6 and 4 Steerman trainers as well as 10 observation aircraft that were awaiting parts and unable to take off. Again bombs destroy or severely damage every building, severely crater the airstrip (the only concrete strip in the Philippines) and not facing any opposition, the field is then severely strafed for 15 minutes. Casualties are very heavy, with nearly 300 killed or wounded as the ground defenses are a few heavy machine guns many of which are silenced early on. Every plane on the field is destroyed or wrecked except for 2 Steerman's that were parked under some trees at the edge of the field.
The Japanese finish their strike and are exiting over Manila Bay when Tiger Flight spots them. The Japanese bombers are naked of cover, as their fighter cover is still strafing Nichols Field. Dyess leads his formation to a position above and behind the Japanese bombers, and then hits them as they reach the entrance of Manila Bay. The 18 American fighters inflict heavy revenge, flaming 12 of the Japanese bombers, with Dyess getting 4 of them (adding to the bomber he flamed earlier) and thus becoming the first American ace in the Philippines. The Americans only break off as ammunition is nearly exhausted and the hastily summoned Japanese fighter escort finally climbs back up to altitude.
The Americans get away clean once again, as the Japanese fighters are low on ammunition and fuel, and Dyess will eventually be awarded the Medal of Honor for his leadership this day.
Meanwhile, over Lingayen Gulf, Buzz Wagner and Panther Flight have missed the Japanese bombers of Raid 1 which have already flown by, but they are in position when 27 Zeroes are spotted flying low heading north. This formation are the strafers of Clark Field and many are damaged and nearly all are out of ammunition. The 12 P40s dive on them and manage to splash at total of 7 of the enemy fighters before they escape. Several more are damaged and 4 of these end up ditching on the way home. However some of the American pilots, the relatively inexperienced pilots of the 3rd Pursuit, end up in dogfights with enemy fighters and while they destroy 2 of the Zeroes lost in this fight, 2 of them are shot down (and both pilots are killed) and 2 more heavily damaged.
By 1400 hours the Japanese are gone. Behind them they leave Nichols, Clark and Nielson Fields burning, littered with wreckage and knocked out of action. Nearly 1,000 American and Filipino casualties are being laid out for hasty burial or flooding into hospitals, among them General Frank who along with several other badly injured are flown out by DC3 to Singapore that night. A total of 7 American fighters (5 P40E, 2 P40B) have been shot down, another 6 fighters (2 P40E, 4 P40B) are damaged and effectively write offs as the principal repair facilities for the Far East Air Force have been destroyed, and another 47 aircraft have been destroyed on the ground. Imperial Japanese Navy losses are heavier than hoped, with 10 fighters and 21 bombers destroyed (and 4 more fighters lost on the way home) but considered acceptable as the principal infrastructure to support the Far East Air Force has been destroyed and Japanese pilots claim 21 kills (matched only by the 60 kills claimed by American pilots in terms of inaccuracy).
American reporters in the Philippines soon get word back to the United States of the outstanding efforts by Tiger Flight, and from then on the P40s of the Far East Air Force are known as the Flying Tigers. Within a couple of days the remaining P40s are all sporting Tiger Shark paint jobs to match their moniker.
As the first formation of 8 P40s climb toward the approaching Japanese bombers flying straight for Clark Field at 20,000 feet, Chennault scrambles the rest of his fighters. He orders them to assemble over Nielson Field and to defend Manila, Nielson and Nichols as well as Cavite. This force is Tiger (8 P40B, 10 P40E) Flight and Captain William Dyess is in command. The 8 P40s (4 P40E, 4 P40B) that were already airborne are Puma (4 P40B, 4 P40E) Flight, while the 12 P40s that Buzz Wagner led earlier and are still refueling at Baguio are Panther Flight (8 P40E, 4 P40B). He orders them to take off as soon as they can and to attack the enemy after they bomb Clark and are retiring.
He also orders every plane that can take off to immediately do so and to remain at low altitude and fly in the direction of Bataan (single engine planes) or to fly to Cebu (the transport aircraft). The patrol bombers are still on patrol and hopefully will not be engaged.
Puma Flight is still climbing as the Japanese bombers and fighters of Raid 1 cross the coast over Dagupan. The Japanese spot the American fighters as they climb and dive to meet them with 18 Zeros. In a short vicious dogfight, American fighter pilots of the 3rd and 17th Pursuit Squadrons learn the hard way what Chennault has been teaching his American Volunteer Group, never dogfight with the Zero. Outnumbered by twice their number of enemy, at a disadvantage as they are climbing while the Zero's are diving, the Americans quickly discover that the Zero have every advantage in a turning battle. Only Puma 3 and Wolf 1 manage to survive, while the other 6 P40s are shot out of the sky (and only two pilots escape from their aircraft). The two survivors are forced to dive away and learn that while they can not dogfight a Zero, they can most definitely out dive one. Both fighters escape but the Americans have lost 6 aircraft and inflicted only minor damage in return.
The remainder of Raid 1, 72 Nell Bombers and 30 Zero fighters approach Clark Field unmolested and flying well above the ability of American anti-aircraft gun fuses to reach them, proceed to level every building and severely crater the runways and aprons. After the 10 minutes of bombing, the Zero fighters then swoop down to strafe. There are 12 P40B, 5 P40E, 1 DC2, 1 DC3, 2 B18 and 2 B10 in revetments or in hangers that were undergoing repair or awaiting vital parts, and not one of them survives the bombing or the 45 minutes of strafing that follows it. American anti-aircraft gunners fight back as best they can but they suffer heavy losses as well, with nearly half of them killed or wounded. Only 3 Zeroes are shot down by flak, while Clark is wrecked as an operational base and along with it the bulk of the repair capability of the Far East Air Force. Personnel casualties are also heavy with nearly 300 men killed or wounded in the attack in spite of slit trenches and foxholes aplenty.
As Clark Field is converted into a hell, the next round is already underway. Japanese Raid 2, with 66 Betty Bombers and 36 Zero fighters had been flying south over the Sierra Madre mountains, which has hidden them from ground observers and radar as well, and they are not spotted until they are mere 25 miles from Nielson Field. General Frank is still in his headquarters building attempting to get through to Clark Field when the bombers arrive. General Chennault is outside by a radio truck when he sees the enemy approaching and well aware of what is coming dives into a slit trench just as the bombs begin to fall. Meanwhile Dyess and Tiger Flight spot the enemy and have just reached their assigned altitude of 25,000 feet when the frantic call from Nielson comes over the radio. An intervening layer of scattered clouds blocks the enemy from sight on their approach and they only spotted when the first puffs of bomb blasts are spotted far below at the airfield.
Japanese bombing is near perfect, utterly destroying most of the buildings on the base and nearly completely destroying the air strip as well. General Frank is seriously wounded and knocked out, while Chennault manages to avoid physical injury although is covered in mud and water. The radar station is completely destroyed, sharing the fate of the radar at Clark, and within the first few hours of the war the Americans are down to one functioning radar facility in the Philippines. Luckily the Japanese are unaware of the facility at Subic Bay or it likely too would have been targeted.
Casualties are severe, as shelters had not yet been constructed at Neilson and over 400 men are killed or wounded and as a command facility the base is effectively destroyed. However the base is spared the heavy strafing that occurred at Clark because as the last bomb falls, Tiger Flight dives on the enemy formation. Dyess orders his fighters to make one pass and to break away and to concentrate on the bombers and ignore the enemy fighters. Captain Dyess had spent several days talking to Chennault about China and Japanese aircraft and he knows that the Dive and Zoom are the proper tactics.
His pilots manage to flame 9 Betty's in their firing pass and American pilots discover first hand that the Betty is a flying gas tank with almost no armor and inadequate fire power. Diving away, his fighters avoid any losses, although several have suffered damage, and the Japanese fighters are in hot but ultimately futile pursuit. Meanwhile the Japanese bombers having completed their run turn away and flee at high speed. The Japanese fighters soon break off, as they are near the end of their range and they head for home as well, while Dyess and his fighters regroup over Bataan.
However Tiger Flight is well out of position when the final Japanese strike, Raid 3, 30 Betty bombers and 21 Zero fighters comes in a few minutes behind Raid 2 having followed the same flight path. This force heads straight for Nichols Field, and with command and control shattered by the effective destruction of Nielson and Clark Fields, no warning is sent and indeed the first inkling of attack is a rain of bombs. On the field in revetments and hangers are 18 A24s, 4 T6 and 4 Steerman trainers as well as 10 observation aircraft that were awaiting parts and unable to take off. Again bombs destroy or severely damage every building, severely crater the airstrip (the only concrete strip in the Philippines) and not facing any opposition, the field is then severely strafed for 15 minutes. Casualties are very heavy, with nearly 300 killed or wounded as the ground defenses are a few heavy machine guns many of which are silenced early on. Every plane on the field is destroyed or wrecked except for 2 Steerman's that were parked under some trees at the edge of the field.
The Japanese finish their strike and are exiting over Manila Bay when Tiger Flight spots them. The Japanese bombers are naked of cover, as their fighter cover is still strafing Nichols Field. Dyess leads his formation to a position above and behind the Japanese bombers, and then hits them as they reach the entrance of Manila Bay. The 18 American fighters inflict heavy revenge, flaming 12 of the Japanese bombers, with Dyess getting 4 of them (adding to the bomber he flamed earlier) and thus becoming the first American ace in the Philippines. The Americans only break off as ammunition is nearly exhausted and the hastily summoned Japanese fighter escort finally climbs back up to altitude.
The Americans get away clean once again, as the Japanese fighters are low on ammunition and fuel, and Dyess will eventually be awarded the Medal of Honor for his leadership this day.
Meanwhile, over Lingayen Gulf, Buzz Wagner and Panther Flight have missed the Japanese bombers of Raid 1 which have already flown by, but they are in position when 27 Zeroes are spotted flying low heading north. This formation are the strafers of Clark Field and many are damaged and nearly all are out of ammunition. The 12 P40s dive on them and manage to splash at total of 7 of the enemy fighters before they escape. Several more are damaged and 4 of these end up ditching on the way home. However some of the American pilots, the relatively inexperienced pilots of the 3rd Pursuit, end up in dogfights with enemy fighters and while they destroy 2 of the Zeroes lost in this fight, 2 of them are shot down (and both pilots are killed) and 2 more heavily damaged.
By 1400 hours the Japanese are gone. Behind them they leave Nichols, Clark and Nielson Fields burning, littered with wreckage and knocked out of action. Nearly 1,000 American and Filipino casualties are being laid out for hasty burial or flooding into hospitals, among them General Frank who along with several other badly injured are flown out by DC3 to Singapore that night. A total of 7 American fighters (5 P40E, 2 P40B) have been shot down, another 6 fighters (2 P40E, 4 P40B) are damaged and effectively write offs as the principal repair facilities for the Far East Air Force have been destroyed, and another 47 aircraft have been destroyed on the ground. Imperial Japanese Navy losses are heavier than hoped, with 10 fighters and 21 bombers destroyed (and 4 more fighters lost on the way home) but considered acceptable as the principal infrastructure to support the Far East Air Force has been destroyed and Japanese pilots claim 21 kills (matched only by the 60 kills claimed by American pilots in terms of inaccuracy).
American reporters in the Philippines soon get word back to the United States of the outstanding efforts by Tiger Flight, and from then on the P40s of the Far East Air Force are known as the Flying Tigers. Within a couple of days the remaining P40s are all sporting Tiger Shark paint jobs to match their moniker.
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