Eire a world power?... Why the hell not?

Ahh, I remember the days when to I questioned why my homeland could not have an empire greater than Britains. Oh how I dispaired!;)

I suppose everything's been said already, the geography of the island, it's position in relation to the continent, the small tribalistic population who need a common enemy to stop them beating the shite out of each other, it goes on.

Then again why the hell would you want Ireland to run an empire? You cannot combine the romanticism taken from centuries of oppression and the Great power status, it doesn't work like that. I personally prefer the romantic image that the rest of the world tends to give Ireland, it's so much more noble and inspring than the thought of being responsible for the deaths of millions and a collapsed empire.

You see, I think people are misunderstanding why I made this thread. It isn't to be another guy shouting about how awesome the irish are, we have enough people doing that. All I was honestly at this point is to prove everyone wrong. I'm stubborn like that. And there are a hell of a lot more rediculous threads out there gaining a lot more respect than the mere IDEA of a Irish Power. I didnt even say super power, merely world power, as in colonies and a player on the world stage. I'm glad I/ve started such heated discussion, but I will only say this one time. I'm going to make an Irelandwank, it's going to be just as plausible as the next guy's TL, and the Halo theme playing in my head makes this whole speach sound so much more epic than it probably looks.
I will post a continuation of my TL shortly,
thanks for reading
 
Age of Darkness: Invasion, Unification, and Expansion

510 AD, one hundred years since Rome’s withdrawal from Hibernia and Britannia. The patchwork of small kingdoms across the Isles consists of two Anglo-Saxon kingdoms (Northumbria and East Anglia) pushed up against the East Coast, the Caledonian and Pictish kingdoms in the North, the Romano-British petty kingdoms dotted across Britannia (Londonium and Cumbria are the leaders) and in Ireland, the Ui Niell rule the North, Hibernicum holds control over the South East, and the Eoganachta control much of the South West. Many other petty kingdoms and tribes survive, mostly in the North West and Center of the Island. It has been over forty years since the last Gaelic-involved war to fight off the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes.
But recently the Angles have been getting a little more rambunctious. They have begun to push further inland again, and Angle raiding parties abound. A Londonian scout confirmed that Angles were arriving by ship en masse onto the island. Word was that their homeland back in Scandinavia was sinking.
But no one was more surprised than the Irish kings when a fleet of Angle ships landed on the North East coast of Ireland. The Angle invasion of Ireland had begun. War was imminent.
The Ui Niell fell first. At the Battle of Down, June 7th, 512 AD, the Ulster Irish Army was slaughtered.
The fact is that the other Irish Kingdoms likely would not have given one rat’s ass if the Ui Niell in Ulster were destroyed so long as the Angles settled and stayed there. But they didn’t. The Angle war machine continued to march southward, raiding and pillaging through both Eoganachta and Hibernian territory.
The united Irish Army, made up of most (but not all) the Irish Kingdoms, and led by King Eachaid of Corc (Eoganachta King) and Fearghus Magnessus of Hibernicum. They met the Angles in battle outside of a small village called Ros Cre on March 29th, 513. The way the Angle army worked was they interlocked shields into a shield wall, like a primitive phalanx. They would charge, and in this wall be almost unbreakable. Almost. There was only one real way without completely enveloping the Angles to break the wall. The Gaels had fought Angles before, only some forty years ago, the Irish helped the British push them back. The Irish met the Angle shield wall in a wedge formation. The front line of the wedge was cut down almost instantaneously, but the wall was cracked in half, and like the soft fruit inside the hard shell of a nut, the Angles were all for the picking. The Irish cavalry then rode in and flanked the Angles. The Irish routed their enemy and managed to push them back north with the help of some Ulster rebels. The retreating enemy ran North, and then suddenly swung East towards the coast. The Angles dug in outside modern day Belfast for their last stand.
But on the morning of May 9th, the Irish found an enemy much larger than the one they saw the night before. So it turned out, the Angles had led the Irish Army here for a reason. Reinforcements came, and just at the worst possible time for the Irish.
Fearghus threatened to leave, but King Eochaid promised his daughter to the Hibernian King if he stayed and fought. Fearghus obliged (because men will do just about anything to get laid), and his army remained. The Battle of Belfast was the bloodiest battle yet on Irish soil. Both armies suffered heavy casualties. King Eochaid himself was shot through the chest by Angle arrows, and the wound proved mortal. But at the end of the day, once the Angles were finally pushed back to their ships and retreated home, victory belonged to the Irish.
Fearghus claimed dominion over the whole of the island, and said that because of the binding of the houses of Eoganachta and Hibernicum, he was now the first King of Eire. Of course, there were many uprisings, and tribes and petty kingdoms at first unwilling to swear fealty to Hibernicum, but by 516 AD, Fearghus Magnessus became King Fearghus I of Eire.
Then in 536, the crops failed. Scientists today noticed a trend that began with the sinking of Old Anglia, and continued on through the 6th century. The climate was changing. Irish annals show that the grain stopped growing as well as it had before, and people began to starve. IOTL this caused the Gaelic migration into Caledonia, which started what we know today the Kingdom of Scotland. Irish pirates had been raiding the Hebrides and the coasts of Pictland and Caledonia for centuries, and small villages and populations of Irish dotted the shoreline of Northwestern Britannia. Facing the destruction of his new kingdom, Fearghus I had only one real option. Expansion.
Under the leadership of a tribal leader named Arturi (OTL’s actual leader of Gaelic Invasion of Pictish lands), the Irish Kingdom invaded and conquered the Hebrides as well as a stretch of coastline along Western Caledonia. One Irish military leader also sent a small army and settled in the very tip of the northern peninsula of OTL Wales, and swore fealty to the Hibernian Crown.
Irish farmers and settlers swelled into the newly claimed lands, and began cultivating them. They imported much needed grain to Ireland, and saved the Kingdom from crumbling. Though many still died of starvation (deaths were in the thousands), with new lands to farm, and new neighbors to steel from, Eire became a rich, and stable nation in an otherwise unstable time.
 
Age of Darkness: Invasion, Unification, and Expansion

510 AD, one hundred years since Rome’s withdrawal from Hibernia and Britannia. The patchwork of small kingdoms across the Isles consists of two Anglo-Saxon kingdoms (Northumbria and East Anglia) pushed up against the East Coast, the Caledonian and Pictish kingdoms in the North, the Romano-British petty kingdoms dotted across Britannia (Londonium and Cumbria are the leaders) and in Ireland, the Ui Niell rule the North, Hibernicum holds control over the South East, and the Eoganachta control much of the South West. Many other petty kingdoms and tribes survive, mostly in the North West and Center of the Island. It has been over forty years since the last Gaelic-involved war to fight off the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes.
But recently the Angles have been getting a little more rambunctious. They have begun to push further inland again, and Angle raiding parties abound. A Londonian scout confirmed that Angles were arriving by ship en masse onto the island. Word was that their homeland back in Scandinavia was sinking.
But no one was more surprised than the Irish kings when a fleet of Angle ships landed on the North East coast of Ireland. The Angle invasion of Ireland had begun. War was imminent.
The Ui Niell fell first. At the Battle of Down, June 7th, 512 AD, the Ulster Irish Army was slaughtered.
The fact is that the other Irish Kingdoms likely would not have given one rat’s ass if the Ui Niell in Ulster were destroyed so long as the Angles settled and stayed there. But they didn’t. The Angle war machine continued to march southward, raiding and pillaging through both Eoganachta and Hibernian territory.
The united Irish Army, made up of most (but not all) the Irish Kingdoms, and led by King Eachaid of Corc (Eoganachta King) and Fearghus Magnessus of Hibernicum. They met the Angles in battle outside of a small village called Ros Cre on March 29th, 513. The way the Angle army worked was they interlocked shields into a shield wall, like a primitive phalanx. They would charge, and in this wall be almost unbreakable. Almost. There was only one real way without completely enveloping the Angles to break the wall. The Gaels had fought Angles before, only some forty years ago, the Irish helped the British push them back. The Irish met the Angle shield wall in a wedge formation. The front line of the wedge was cut down almost instantaneously, but the wall was cracked in half, and like the soft fruit inside the hard shell of a nut, the Angles were all for the picking. The Irish cavalry then rode in and flanked the Angles. The Irish routed their enemy and managed to push them back north with the help of some Ulster rebels. The retreating enemy ran North, and then suddenly swung East towards the coast. The Angles dug in outside modern day Belfast for their last stand.
But on the morning of May 9th, the Irish found an enemy much larger than the one they saw the night before. So it turned out, the Angles had led the Irish Army here for a reason. Reinforcements came, and just at the worst possible time for the Irish.
Fearghus threatened to leave, but King Eochaid promised his daughter to the Hibernian King if he stayed and fought. Fearghus obliged (because men will do just about anything to get laid), and his army remained. The Battle of Belfast was the bloodiest battle yet on Irish soil. Both armies suffered heavy casualties. King Eochaid himself was shot through the chest by Angle arrows, and the wound proved mortal. But at the end of the day, once the Angles were finally pushed back to their ships and retreated home, victory belonged to the Irish.
Fearghus claimed dominion over the whole of the island, and said that because of the binding of the houses of Eoganachta and Hibernicum, he was now the first King of Eire. Of course, there were many uprisings, and tribes and petty kingdoms at first unwilling to swear fealty to Hibernicum, but by 516 AD, Fearghus Magnessus became King Fearghus I of Eire.
Then in 536, the crops failed. Scientists today noticed a trend that began with the sinking of Old Anglia, and continued on through the 6th century. The climate was changing. Irish annals show that the grain stopped growing as well as it had before, and people began to starve. IOTL this caused the Gaelic migration into Caledonia, which started what we know today the Kingdom of Scotland. Irish pirates had been raiding the Hebrides and the coasts of Pictland and Caledonia for centuries, and small villages and populations of Irish dotted the shoreline of Northwestern Britannia. Facing the destruction of his new kingdom, Fearghus I had only one real option. Expansion.
Under the leadership of a tribal leader named Arturi (OTL’s actual leader of Gaelic Invasion of Pictish lands), the Irish Kingdom invaded and conquered the Hebrides as well as a stretch of coastline along Western Caledonia. One Irish military leader also sent a small army and settled in the very tip of the northern peninsula of OTL Wales, and swore fealty to the Hibernian Crown.
Irish farmers and settlers swelled into the newly claimed lands, and began cultivating them. They imported much needed grain to Ireland, and saved the Kingdom from crumbling. Though many still died of starvation (deaths were in the thousands), with new lands to farm, and new neighbors to steel from, Eire became a rich, and stable nation in an otherwise unstable time.

Even though it will be hard I think that Ireland with the right amount of luck innovation, courage and sheer numbers I think that Ireland can become a world power. Also ifI mind asking what is the Irish form of governement going to be like is it going to be a tribal federation or will it eventually become a british constituitional monarchy, or a republic even! But anyways
great update keep it up!
 
Even though it will be hard I think that Ireland with the right amount of luck innovation, courage and sheer numbers I think that Ireland can become a world power. Also ifI mind asking what is the Irish form of governement going to be like is it going to be a tribal federation or will it eventually become a british constituitional monarchy, or a republic even! But anyways
great update keep it up!

Well, for a long time i'm thinking a monarchy with tribalistic underlings. As opposed to dukes or earls or any of that stuff, there will be chiefs and tribal leaders. Eventually (still have to think about how this will come about) there will be some kind of tribal parliament or congress. really not sure, that won't be coming about for another thousand years or so.
 
Well, for a long time i'm thinking a monarchy with tribalistic underlings. As opposed to dukes or earls or any of that stuff, there will be chiefs and tribal leaders. Eventually (still have to think about how this will come about) there will be some kind of tribal parliament or congress. really not sure, that won't be coming about for another thousand years or so.

Eventually will Ireland be able to support itself agricultural wise or will the places they conquor in england wales and scotland be their only lifeline:)
 
Well, for a long time i'm thinking a monarchy with tribalistic underlings. As opposed to dukes or earls or any of that stuff, there will be chiefs and tribal leaders. Eventually (still have to think about how this will come about) there will be some kind of tribal parliament or congress. really not sure, that won't be coming about for another thousand years or so.

So a more centralized form of the High Kingship then?

IIRC, the Irish word for Earl is Larla. Just thought that might help.
 
I was actually wondering about whether rice could be introduced to Ireland myself for LTTW. The terrain is good but, as Valdemar says, the climate is poor. Maybe Jared can shed some light on the situation.

Valdemar has already answered this, but to add a few more details:

Not without growing some seriously cold-resistant strains through modern selective breeding techniques, and even then it wouldn't be much good as a crop.

Cold resistant strains of rice do exist: the northernmost latitude that I do know of where rice has been grown is Kazakhstan - see, there's more to Kazakhstan than just an implausible northern border! - at 48 degrees N. Ireland is further north than that, though, IIRC, and it would be quite marginal as a crop.

The other thing is, too, that nothing beats the potato in terms of crop yield per acre. Potatoes are the best staple crop there is. Ireland is pretty damn-well suited to it, and so mucking about with rice won't change that.

As was mentioned elsewhere in this thread, though, introducing potatoes will create all sorts of other changes throughout Europe and the wider world, to the point where the rest of the world unrecognisable.
 
The other thing is, too, that nothing beats the potato in terms of crop yield per acre. Potatoes are the best staple crop there is. Ireland is pretty damn-well suited to it, and so mucking about with rice won't change that.
IIRC, rice beats potatoes when it comes to calories-per-acre produced, at least in ideal rice cultivation areas. Of course, even if you managed to get a strain or rice that was cold-resistant (and you've already pointed out the problems with that proposition) there are still other issues to deal with, like that fact that (again, IIRC) rice puts quite a bit more strain on soil fertility than potatoes do.
 
IIRC, rice beats potatoes when it comes to calories-per-acre produced, at least in ideal rice cultivation areas. Of course, even if you managed to get a strain or rice that was cold-resistant (and you've already pointed out the problems with that proposition) there are still other issues to deal with, like that fact that (again, IIRC) rice puts quite a bit more strain on soil fertility than potatoes do.
It also takes a lot more work to produce in terms of human labor. It's close to 1:1 where grain and potatoes are much more rewarding for the same effort (calorie burn).
 
Hey sorry, I haven't posted anything in awhile. Been busy. This post is a little half-assed, sorry, but this time period in Britain is so poorly documented, it's fitting.

The Light in the Darkness: the Irish Golden Age
540- 800
The Kingdom of Eire now encompassed all of Ireland, the Hebrides, the entire West coast of Caledonia, and a small patch of North West Wales. The crown of Hibernicum continued to prosper. Irish settlers poured into their new colonies across the Irish Sea. The Isle of Man was annexed in 542 AD, and Irish sailors explored further North still. Word was that an island of ice and fire existed near the end of the earth. After studying ancient Greek texts, Irish intellectuals concluded this island was the fabled land of Thule. A small group of monks took to the mast in hopes of finding God out in the silent wilderness.
Irish scholars were prized among the many kingdoms on the continent. Their knowledge of Greek and Latin, languages almost all but forgotten after the harsh barbarian invasions in what used to be the Western Roman Empire, proved useful in the courts of Visigothia, Frankia, ECT.
Trade with the continent was relatively stable (not quite the same influx of wealth Hibernia experienced during Roman occupation, but still).
Meanwhile, Irish relations with their former allies in Britannia were shaky at best. Many of the Roman Successor states, specifically Cumbria, felt the pressure of Gaelic expansion. Irish raids into the weaker and more divided British kingdoms were common, and Irish pirates were notorious for taking British slaves. Gaelic culture permeated into the larger, more divided island, and don’t think there wasn’t any pushback.
In 623, a small war between an Irish noble in Scotia (Gaelic Caledonia) and a petty kingdom named Strathclyde broke out. After farms and towns being burned on both sides, the Irish High King met Strathclyde in battle. The battle was short; the Gaelic Army was at least three times the size of Strathclydes. The Irish Crown took half of Strathclyde’s lands, demanded tribute, and took of Strathclidian King’s daughters as a wife for the Scotian noble.
Borders on Britannia continued to shift. The Angles of Northumbria pushed north the Picts and Caledonians further. Londonium expanded south, taking much of Jute colonized, though Romano-Brit ruled Kent. The Cornish King inherited the Kingdom of Armorica in 678 AD. Gaelic expansion into Wales continued, and by 789 AD almost all of Northern Wales was under Irish control.
Information on this time period is scanty, despite the flowering of Gaelic scholarliness. But just when everything was looking good, like stability might come back in the British Isles and Kings could rule their land and people with some effectiveness, a long ship appeared on the horizon, and what came to be known as the Great Scourge arrived from across the sea.
 
Soooo, its been awhile. I made it all the way back to the 7th page *shakes fist angrily*. Honestly, details annoy me, and it seems there isnt much interest here, so what the hell. hence forth, my posts will be short and to the point. forget names, dates, ect. just major events and things of note.

So.
Firstly, viking raids. they show up, start ransacking the place. Irish, being more unified, don't go into chaos like they did OTL. they do something rather different, actually. after Norse settle Dublin, the Irish take it using their army and offer the Viking leaders there a deal. The vikings start the first official Irish Navy.
Meanwhile, in Britannia, Londonium is sacked and burned to the ground by the Danes of Danelaw, and the struggling Angle nations are assimilated into York. Because of Viking raids into Pictland and Caledonia from Orkney, the Irish in "Scotia" use the oppertunity to take the whole of Scotland (like OTL, except more organized.)
Irish "Vikings" begin to further settle Thule, much like the Norse. Thule, being so isolated, does not join the Kingdom of Eire until the Crown annexes it in the 15th century. The Irish Vikings also start to raid France intensely, as well as parts of the Umuyyad and Cornwall. Eventually, an all out invasion of Cornwall from the Irish takes place, and the Cornish King escapes to Brittany.
In the 11th Century, Harold Hardraga, the Norwegian King of Oslo, invades Danelaw, and succeeds. He returns to Oslo in 1066 with a large slab of Britannia under his firm control. Normandy was settled by Vikings, but the Normans never invaded the British Isles.
The Middle Ages Begin.
 
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