EHS Titanic

J. P. Morgan and his associates owned the White Star Lines, for what it is worth. He also had supposedly been going to board the ship but instead went to spas in France, along with his large amount of artwork. Some say it could have been because of the huge fire in the coal bunkers.
 

Flubber

Banned
Someone did the figures on U.S. military strength, particularly that order of a hundred destroyers.


Along with the various geopolitical issues such as the Kingdom of Finland, the snippet I quote above is where this otherwise superb time line imploded.

To us in 2012 with the lesson of USW in WW1 and WW2, those 100 USN destroyers are a significant force that will quickly win any Battle of the Atlantic that may arise. To the people of this time line in 1914 - in which the USW campaigns of our WW1 and WW2 have not and will never occur - those 100 USN destroyers are negligible.

Germany in this time line would count dreadnoughts and battlecruisers as indications of US might well before destroyers and their ASW utility. Submarines are fragile toys best suited to mine laying in enemy waters and coastal defense. No one in 1914 can even dream of the USW campaigns which occurred later.

Germany in this 1914 would only listen to Roosevelt if the USN battle line was seen as a major threat, the US could throw significant forces ashore in Europe, US factories and farms could supply and feed her allies, or more likely because of some mixture of all that.

This has been a great time line and you can easily recover from this late stumble.
 
Along with the various geopolitical issues such as the Kingdom of Finland, the snippet I quote above is where this otherwise superb time line imploded.

To us in 2012 with the lesson of USW in WW1 and WW2, those 100 USN destroyers are a significant force that will quickly win any Battle of the Atlantic that may arise. To the people of this time line in 1914 - in which the USW campaigns of our WW1 and WW2 have not and will never occur - those 100 USN destroyers are negligible.

Germany in this time line would count dreadnoughts and battlecruisers as indications of US might well before destroyers and their ASW utility. Submarines are fragile toys best suited to mine laying in enemy waters and coastal defense. No one in 1914 can even dream of the USW campaigns which occurred later.

Germany in this 1914 would only listen to Roosevelt if the USN battle line was seen as a major threat, the US could throw significant forces ashore in Europe, US factories and farms could supply and feed her allies, or more likely because of some mixture of all that.

This has been a great time line and you can easily recover from this late stumble.

And how many larger ships? The idea is for a balanced fleet, so 100 DD is a baseline.
 

Flubber

Banned
And how many larger ships? The idea is for a balanced fleet, so 100 DD is a baseline.


As with Nelson's complaints about a lack of frigates, navies never seem to build enough destroyers until the war is upon them. The US was no different, Congress much preferred funding big ships they could slap big names on to oodles of small fry. No one ever had all the destroyers and other escorts they were supposed to have.

Without an ASW role, destroyers primarily escort capital ships while defending them from torpedo attacks from the other side's destroyers, so as a WAG I suppose you could hang your hat on roughly a 3:1 ratio of destroyers to capital ships. The RN at Jutland had 37 capital ships and 78 destroyers while the HSF had 21 and 61 respectively. (Of course not every destroyer or torpedo boat on each side was assigned to escort a capital ship.)

That ratio gives the US roughly 33 capital ships which begs two follow on questions: What has been the UK's response to the US building program and how is the US manning all those hulls? Is the UK somehow ignoring the US fleet? If so, why? Has Roosevelt somehow instituted a peacetime draft to man his larger navy, much larger army, and air force? Again, if so, why?
 
I can see the US starting early in a larger fleet - this would strain relations with the UK - if its done before the war, afterwards the UK are too occupied with Germany to make another enemy.

But even if the US hints on her big new shiny navy all Germany will do is "shrug" and tell the US that there uis more to a navy than hulls only. And they will point out that more ships for teh Entente will not make Germanys situation worse...

And every dollar sunk into ships can't be used on a land army (why is something GErmany actually has to fear).

IF the US expands its armed forces this might lead to an early end of the war - but the earlier the better off the CPs will probably be.

And after the war UK will probably come to terms with Germany (as both GErmany and UK are not or no longer interested in a powerful US)

But as said before the TL seems to favor the CP militarily but they seem to have lost the peace - thats not realistic.

Please no US UK protectorates on the mainlynd.

Poland might exist and sport (historical based - Napoleon) good relations with France and look to the US as friend (contingency maybe), but its real allies (for the immediate future) will be Germany and A-H which can back Poland against a strengthening Russia. Likewise Serbi is landlockes and prewar was in the Rusiian sphere of influence (disintegrated in the war) You can assume that Serbia will face a political change (ousting the gvmt for loosing the war). A new government will have look to a new sponsor (as Russia is out atm). To determine who could be that sponsor one has to determine who the enemy is. Neglecting A-H which might not want yet more belligerent slaws INSIDE the monarchy. The next enemy might be Bulgaria (Balkan wars) Albania (Kosovo - its not a modern problem) and maybe Greece (unlikely but there is possible conflict about Macedonia). So Serbia has two options Italy and Austria (for the immediate future) . Those nations are not really friends, so in a conflict A-H has direct acess to Serbia, while Italy has not... So Sernbia will lean on AH the next few years - not because it must, it will want. If the relations will improve will depend on many things, but in fact relations might improve if A-H realises that the Serbs are a proud nation and if you nurture their national pride they can be good neighbours (say an ethnic split of Bosnia and allowing Serbs moving from Croatia and Hugarian lands to Serbia prober in exchange for Bosnian population maybe. (not forced but strongly encouraged by giving generous conditions to those who move). Anotehr possibility is to allow serbia to expand into Albania (sea access). Simply spoken : direct Serbian ambition elsewhere. (Croats and Sloveneswill be loyal HAbsburg subjects with the war won)
 
United States Capitol, Washington, D.C., USA, Sunday, March 4, 1917

It wouldn’t happen again.

Theodore Roosevelt, the outgoing President, watched with mixed pleasure and concern as his third, and he thought, his final term came to an end. Up ahead, Chief Justice White was standing there with the Bible. Damned reb. Taft would have been better, but Taft was busy keeping down central Europe.

The British and French had held back fighting Germany. Liberation of the captive nations of Central Europe had been popular, but then, the Germans had begun to install German governments in them. That would kick off the war again. Deals had perforce been made.

The governments were still pro-German. But the administrators of the Baltics were English, Poland was run by the Americans. Taft would look out his window in Warsaw, or this cad Churchill, the British Minister for the Mandatory Territories, visit Helsingfors, no now they called it “Helsinki”, and see Bayer chemical plants, Krupp steel mills . . . German officers training the Baltic militaries. There had been a case of the chief aide-de-camp to the Grand Duke of Livonia, a young Uhlan named Richthofen, challenging the British military observers to a horse race and beating them all.

He had personally visited Berlin and laid down the law. Very few people stood in his way when he wanted something done. Now if they would not be so obvious about stamping out this “Mehrheitsche” movement, led by this Münzenberg. — Enough of that. Concentrate on this.

“Repeat after me. ‘I, Hiram Warren Johnson’.”

“I, Hiram Warren Johnson . . “

”’Do solemnly swear . . .’”


Berlinerstadtschloss, Berlin, Prussia, Deutsches Reich, Montag, 5. Marz 1920

“All-Highest, the unrest is a serious problem.”

Wilhelm glared at the Kanzler. “Is that not what you are supposed to do? Suppress it?”

“If the reform is not put through, there will be even bloodier battles between the Mehrheitsche and the Deutschearbeitersfront.”

“A Russian and an Austrian. Deport them both!” Then he looked at the paper before him. A constitutional change that would make the Kanzler responsible to the Reichstag, not him. He sighed and reached for his pen.
 
Medina, Emirate of Mecca, Ottoman Empire, 13 Raby II 1339 [Saturday, 25 December 1920]

The looting by the Ikhwan died away towards sundown. The resourceful desert chieftain, or bandit, Abdulaziz of Nejd had marshaled his the Bedu of the Arabian desert into a fierce, savage gang. Riding in the forefront of his men, Abdulaziz had overthrown the former overlords of the center of the great peninsula, and now he was striking at the heart of Islam, the second holiest city.

The shaky Turkish lands were facing ruin. Already, the Armenians and the Kurds trembled on the verge of revolt, and with the prospect of an Arab rising, the Caliphate and Sultanate would soon tremble on the brink of extinction.

About the only non-Turkish supporters of the Sublime Porte were in the vicinity of Jerusalem. With the strife of the Russian Civil War, many of the Jews of the new Federation had taken the opportunity to flee. Britain, France, Germany, and the United States had all received large numbers, and many had found opportunity wherever it lay.

To many, though, the siren call was that of going up, “Aliyah”. Hundreds of thousands of Russian Jews poured into the coastal provinces of Southern Syria. The economy was already taking a turn for the better.

But there were foreign influences. It was reported that Abdulaziz was receiving French support, and that French agents were behind the Armenian resistance. Just as it was reported that the British were encouraging the migration of the Jews, all the better to shore up the Porte.


Budapest, Apostolic Kingdom of Hungary, Saturday, 25 December 1920

King Karolyi did not go out much. The strains of the Servian War had done for the Dual Monarchy. In the aftermath of the demise of Franz-Josef, after so many years, the problem of nationalities had broken loose. It all began when an uprising in Prague proclaimed a Czech republic. Within days, the army had broken into its several parts. The Empire was done for.

Austrian politicians had sent delegates to Berlin, begging to be admitted to the Reich. This had almost provoked a war, which had only been settled by British and American backed negotiations in Reykjavik. The Treaty of Reykjavik had shaken the German Reich, with the retrocession of Lorraine to France, and the hand-over of Posen to Poland, along with transit concessions to Danzig. Had it not been for the absorption of the new Grand Duchy of Upper and Lower Austria, under the nominal rule of the heir of the late Franz-Ferdinand, German politicians would have raised a great uproar. The Reich had paid a heavy price for its new lands, but now Germany was more “German”, the conservatives stronger in the Reichstag by the inclusion of the more traditionalist Austrians. Moreover, war had been averted.

Hungary was now Hungarian, with a Habsburg monarch, surrounded by the Slovak Republic, the Grand Duchy of Slovenia, the Croatian Commonwealth, the Kingdom of Romania, and the Mandat de Serbie.
 
Aqaba, State of Israel, Second Day, 25 Elul 5682 (Monday, 18 September 1922)

Jewish doctrine says the world was created on 25 Elul. It was merely a coincidence that the grand plans of Abdulaziz bin Abdul Rahman Ibn Saud, Caliph of Islam, Sheikh of Islam, Protector of the Three Holy Cities, King of Arabia, Emir of Nejd, Hejaz, Irak, Syria, and Yemen, Commander of the Faithful, Lord of the Ikhwan, Ruler of the Arabs, came to an end before the arms of the Haganah on that day.

It was even stranger that Ari ben-Dovid Bronshteyn, the Israeli Minister of War, was well known to disdain if not outright despise the very concept of a Jewish state, and had only accepted the office as part of a coalition deal. Many in the new country (for it had declared its independence in the aftermath of the collapse of Ottoman rule) tended to ascribe the victory more to the efforts of the Chief of Staff, Rav-Aluf Yosef Trumpeldor.

The Arab Army had conquered most of the Peninsula, stopping for the moment only at the boundaries of the British protectorates. Instead, the Ruler had striven to unite his large and disparate force with a common target. The Ikhwan, under his personal command, had moved into South Syria to oust the despised Jew. (It did not help his bid for British support when he had had English explorer Thomas E. Shaw tortured to death after reportedly doing even worse to him.)

The Arabs had attacked valiantly, cavalry charges of warriors armed with scimitar and rifle going forward in valiant, indeed fanatic, masses, secure in their faith of faiths, declaring that there was no God but God. They had encountered entrenched soldiers, in fortifications with machine-guns, backed by artillery, and armoured cars.

The Jews had applied the doctrines of Yan Bloch, the Polish military theorist, who had described the effects of the machine gun. They had taken up the wild scientific romance of the English Gentile Wells, who had posited the efficacy of armored vehicles. Bronshteyn had read widely, some of it not even his own maniacal political frothings (he was said to favor the theories of a petty Russian exile who had died in Switzerland recently from influenza). His flight to the Zionist Entity had been ahead of the police of a half-dozen nations, as he went to the only country that would take him without reservations, and then he had been advised to restrain his internationalism.

It was said that Abdulaziz had died at the head of his men. Nevertheless, he had died, his army had been destroyed, and his gimcrack empire had disintegrated. Survivors of ancient emirates and new men raised up by the sword’s point struggled amid the ruins, each for his own.
 
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