Effects on 'Maritime Provinces' with Quebec independence?

Hey Guys,

In the 1995 Quebec referendum the vote was so close, but obviously the 'No' vote to independence from Canada won the day by .58%. Now let's say the 'Yes' vote wins, and Quebec becomes independent.

Now, what would the effects on the 'Maritime Provinces' of Canada be? Would they do as the media speculated and join the United States? Do they instead stay with Canada but just get a little poorer, or would they form their own nation?
 
Hey Guys,

In the 1995 Quebec referendum the vote was so close, but obviously the 'No' vote to independence from Canada won the day by .58%. Now let's say the 'Yes' vote wins, and Quebec becomes independent.

Now, what would the effects on the 'Maritime Provinces' of Canada be? Would they do as the media speculated and join the United States? Do they instead stay with Canada but just get a little poorer, or would they form their own nation?
Yup, one of those.:)

I think any of those options are possible in the long run. In the immediate aftermath, they stay with Canada, but in 10-30 years lots of possibilities open up.

An independent 'Maritimes' or 'Atlantica' or whatever is far more likely if the west splits (in however many pieces) from Ontario.
 
One of my fomer professors (born in Hamilton, ON, now a naturalized U.S. citizen) told me around that time that if Quebec secession did in fact, happen, to "Watch the Maritimes." He told me that in the early '80s, when there was another secession scare, those four provinces had supposedly asked the U.S. State Department on what they would have to do in order to join the U.S. as states. No idea if they'd actually done so, but that was what was going 'round at the time.
 
I figure they'd stay part of Canada. Nothing would have changed because of Quebec independence, and I highly doubt Quebec would have become independent with the entirety of its provincial territory. I figure the north, which is dominated in terms of population by Native Canadians (who overwhelmingly wanted to stay in Canada in both 1980 and 1995) would stay part of Canada. Ottawa would be forced to build a lot of roadway across northern Quebec to Labrador, and probably a bridge between Labrador and Newfoundland, as well as a substantial ferry and transport service network to serve New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island.

Joining the US is close to ASB. People in the Maritimes are usually among the proudest of Canadians.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
I assumed that Quebec would be partitioned and a lot of those guys voted no.

Yes but the Townships were not particularly against it, no... The region is entirely Bloc ridings at the federal level and only has like one riding that goes to the liberals (and that's not even a safe riding, Charest gets it with some of the tightest pluralities in the province) at the provincial level. Partition of anything besides Nunavik would be ridiculously unworkable and would require basically splitting off individual houses and streets. It was a fantasy, nothing else.
 
...I highly doubt Quebec would have become independent with the entirety of its provincial territory....

I've heard, in the context of the Belgian situation, that international law favors, in the event of one portion of a country seceding from a larger country, that its boundaries stay intact. I.e. that if Quebec seceded, it would in fact take the entirety of its territory. I (1) have no idea if this is true, (2) recognize the, um, intellectual inconsistency inherent in Quebec's exercising a right to self-determination but denying it to the north (or Westmount), and (3) hope we never find out.
 
I figure they'd stay part of Canada. Nothing would have changed because of Quebec independence, and I highly doubt Quebec would have become independent with the entirety of its provincial territory. I figure the north, which is dominated in terms of population by Native Canadians (who overwhelmingly wanted to stay in Canada in both 1980 and 1995) would stay part of Canada. Ottawa would be forced to build a lot of roadway across northern Quebec to Labrador, and probably a bridge between Labrador and Newfoundland, as well as a substantial ferry and transport service network to serve New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island.

Joining the US is close to ASB. People in the Maritimes are usually among the proudest of Canadians.

I agree - including that by the time of the referendum, techonology had improved to the point where it could be possible to have a disjointed country. Not to mention that even if the "Oui" side won, Quebec would still go for the "sovereignty-association" model that has been pushed since the 1960's/1970's - in other words, something akin to a personal union or even something akin to the US but less centralized which would entrench economic dependence on the rest of Canada.

Then, of course, there would be the possibility of the New England states banging at Quebec City's door screaming "Let me in! Let me in!" :D
 
Dan1988, except that once Quebec votes to secede the likelihood of the rest of Canada being willing to offer Quebec sovereignty-association or any other concessions or compromises is close to zero, just another claim made by the secessionists which had little basis in reality.

Or, as has been stated, Canada is not a salad bar where Quebec can pick and choose which items to keep or reject.




Philadelphus, a special problem would be that the northern half(or more) of Quebec was the Ungava region and was part of Canada before it was merged with Quebec in 1912 so Canada would have a case on the basis of the Canadian claim actually being older than Quebec's, indeed, Quebec only having that area because Canada gave it to them. Along with the anti-Quebec attitude of the natives.
 
Dan1988, except that once Quebec votes to secede the likelihood of the rest of Canada being willing to offer Quebec sovereignty-association or any other concessions or compromises is close to zero, just another claim made by the secessionists which had little basis in reality.

Or, as has been stated, Canada is not a salad bar where Quebec can pick and choose which items to keep or reject.

Philadelphus, a special problem would be that the northern half(or more) of Quebec was the Ungava region and was part of Canada before it was merged with Quebec in 1912 so Canada would have a case on the basis of the Canadian claim actually being older than Quebec's, indeed, Quebec only having that area because Canada gave it to them. Along with the anti-Quebec attitude of the natives.

Grimm has points on all of these. If Quebec is looking to secede, the Liberals might be able to offer compromises, but the other parties, the Conservatives and (especially) the Reform Party will be hopping, smoking mad over the possibility, and any negotiations about secession will be long, public and very, very ugly. The Cree of Northern Quebec will NOT want to separate from Canada for an independent Quebec, which raises another problem, and Ottawa will demand Quebec take on a share of Canada's national debt, thus adding to its economic woes.
 
and Ottawa will demand Quebec take on a share of Canada's national debt, thus adding to its economic woes.

That's when New England comes into play. ;):D Call me mad, but adding New England to the mix could make things more interesting - even though that demotes Quebec to the status of being an extended Greater Boston metro area.
 
That's when New England comes into play. ;):D Call me mad, but adding New England to the mix could make things more interesting - even though that demotes Quebec to the status of being an extended Greater Boston metro area.
Wait ...

It isn't, Already ...

I Know for Sure, MY Area is!

:eek:
 
An independent 'Maritimes' or 'Atlantica' or whatever is far more likely if the west splits (in however many pieces) from Ontario.

A combined Maritime/Atlantic Provinces already has a name it can use if it goes independant... Acadia (from the original French settlers).

I would also suggest a 4th option besides the other 3, the Canadian Forces take a corridor linking New Brunswick to Ontario from the newly formed state of Quebec.
 
One of my fomer professors (born in Hamilton, ON, now a naturalized U.S. citizen) told me around that time that if Quebec secession did in fact, happen, to "Watch the Maritimes." He told me that in the early '80s, when there was another secession scare, those four provinces had supposedly asked the U.S. State Department on what they would have to do in order to join the U.S. as states. No idea if they'd actually done so, but that was what was going 'round at the time.


Beat me to it: I recall (vaguely!) reading a few items, mostly in the Philadelphia Inquirer that the Maritimes had come knocking, so to speak, inquiring about the logistics of statehood.

For what it's worth, my sense is that the transition would have been fairly smooth. It would have taken some time for the residents to get used to thinking of national politics in terms of a republic rather than a parliamentary system, but somehow I don't think it would have taken too long. And since the US constitution leaves it entirely up to the individual states as the the nature of state governments, the existing provincial legislative systems could have been left intact presuming no constitutional provisions were violated.

I have to wonder how the population would have lined up with respect to US parties; i.e., what would have been the Democrat/Republican split? Some might argue that given the heritage and culture, most would line up as Democrats, but I'm not sure about that. My sense (and someone more familiar, please confirm/correct to suit) is that the local culture is fairly rugged and self-reliant, which might lead one to believe the Republicans might have done fairly well.

Another interesting sidebar: I wonder if statehood and thus citizenship would be retroactive insofar as eligibility for the presidency goes? That is, might a prominent (let's say) Nova Scotia politician suddenly be eligible for the presidency, assuming (s)he was born in Nova Scotia or one of the other maritimes that became states?
 
Another interesting sidebar: I wonder if statehood and thus citizenship would be retroactive insofar as eligibility for the presidency goes? That is, might a prominent (let's say) Nova Scotia politician suddenly be eligible for the presidency, assuming (s)he was born in Nova Scotia or one of the other maritimes that became states?
Hm, IIRC it is so, yes.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Beat me to it: I recall (vaguely!) reading a few items, mostly in the Philadelphia Inquirer that the Maritimes had come knocking, so to speak, inquiring about the logistics of statehood.

For what it's worth, my sense is that the transition would have been fairly smooth. It would have taken some time for the residents to get used to thinking of national politics in terms of a republic rather than a parliamentary system, but somehow I don't think it would have taken too long. And since the US constitution leaves it entirely up to the individual states as the the nature of state governments, the existing provincial legislative systems could have been left intact presuming no constitutional provisions were violated.

I have to wonder how the population would have lined up with respect to US parties; i.e., what would have been the Democrat/Republican split? Some might argue that given the heritage and culture, most would line up as Democrats, but I'm not sure about that. My sense (and someone more familiar, please confirm/correct to suit) is that the local culture is fairly rugged and self-reliant, which might lead one to believe the Republicans might have done fairly well.

Tory to GOP, Liberal to Dem, NDP to either Green or Kucinich-type progressive Dem. The cultural aspect didn't stop a number of "rugged and self-reliant" states from going to Dem, it's mostly a pretty bedside story.
 
Beat me to it: I recall (vaguely!) reading a few items, mostly in the Philadelphia Inquirer that the Maritimes had come knocking, so to speak, inquiring about the logistics of statehood.

For what it's worth, my sense is that the transition would have been fairly smooth. It would have taken some time for the residents to get used to thinking of national politics in terms of a republic rather than a parliamentary system, but somehow I don't think it would have taken too long. And since the US constitution leaves it entirely up to the individual states as the the nature of state governments, the existing provincial legislative systems could have been left intact presuming no constitutional provisions were violated.

I have to wonder how the population would have lined up with respect to US parties; i.e., what would have been the Democrat/Republican split? Some might argue that given the heritage and culture, most would line up as Democrats, but I'm not sure about that. My sense (and someone more familiar, please confirm/correct to suit) is that the local culture is fairly rugged and self-reliant, which might lead one to believe the Republicans might have done fairly well.

Another interesting sidebar: I wonder if statehood and thus citizenship would be retroactive insofar as eligibility for the presidency goes? That is, might a prominent (let's say) Nova Scotia politician suddenly be eligible for the presidency, assuming (s)he was born in Nova Scotia or one of the other maritimes that became states?

Hm, IIRC it is so, yes.
I don't think so, they aren't 'naturally born', nor were they citizens when the Constitution was adopted, so, no, none are eligible for the Presidency,
 
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