Effects on Israeli politics if US is pro-Arab and the USSR is pro-Israel

The Israeli right was completely marginalized from the conception of Zionism until the 1970s. During that period, the main political choice was between socialists and actual communists. Stalin had many admirers among Jews in Palestine and later in Israel (fun aside: Krushchev's speak decrying Stalin was actually leaked to the West by Israel - though ironically, Israel got it through the Shabak (internal security) and not the Mossad; another fun aside, several kibbutzim split in the aftermath of that speech, into pro- and anti-Stalin kibbutzim, and the formation of the Workers' Union Party from the Israeli Workers' Party was that the former were hard-core Stalinists).

With patronage from the USSR, it wouldn't be very difficult at all to see the Revisionist parties (the main rightist movement) outlawed, especially considering the illegal actions and open terrorism that they'd taken before and during the War of Independence. The religious parties would also be hilariously easy to get rid of. Combined with Israel's fiercely competent internal security apparatus, it wouldn't be too hard to completely stamp out the right.

Weirdly, Israel might be able to maintain a fairly good democracy during this period; OTL, there were enough leftist parties that they ended up competing with each other for voters quite a bit, and if some of them started actively courting Mizrahim and Arabs more aggressively, the result could be a multiparty Socialist state (though, again, the parties would span the spectrum from democratic socialism to Stalinism, and probably Trotskyism and Maoism just for fun)

Anyway, in the early years of the country, the economy was basically a centrally controlled command economy anyway, though it had some interesting tinges of liberalism, such as the idea of autonomous communes (kibbutzim and moshavim) that were themselves existing in a free-ish market. Trying to, for example, force more people into kibbutzing wouldn't be super popular, but it probably wouldn't result in mass famines.

Anyway, this topic has been brought up several times, I'm sure you can find some old threads addressing it more in depth.

EDIT: I just realized that the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs on this post don't make sense, because the 20 years between 1948 and 1968 mean that the elimination of the right would have to be way more oppressive. In particular, destroying the religious parties will probably involve violently putting down large riots.
 
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Israel (and pre-state Israel) was incredibly socialist and stayed that way until the 1977 election. Like Minchandre said, the political right in Israel until then was very much so marginalized. Most parties were either communist (Maki), socialist (Mapai, Mapam, and the satellite parties), classical liberal (Progressive, General Zionists), religious (Hapoel HaMizrachi, Agudat Yisrael, Poalei Agudat Yisrael, Mizrachi), or Sephardi or Mizrahi interest groups.

I think that Israel would be able to maintain a strong democracy, though I think that the Sephardi and Mizrahi votes would be courted by the classical liberals since Mapai and Mapam generally ignored them (a type of Ashkenazi chauvinism, really). But there are a lot of leftist or centrist parties who will compete, so there will be some democratic process. I could see an Arab party forming earlier though.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Israel (and pre-state Israel) was incredibly socialist and stayed that way until the 1977 election. Like Minchandre said, the political right in Israel until then was very much so marginalized. Most parties were either communist (Maki), socialist (Mapai, Mapam, and the satellite parties), classical liberal (Progressive, General Zionists), religious (Hapoel HaMizrachi, Agudat Yisrael, Poalei Agudat Yisrael, Mizrachi), or Sephardi or Mizrahi interest groups.

I think that Israel would be able to maintain a strong democracy, though I think that the Sephardi and Mizrahi votes would be courted by the classical liberals since Mapai and Mapam generally ignored them (a type of Ashkenazi chauvinism, really). But there are a lot of leftist or centrist parties who will compete, so there will be some democratic process. I could see an Arab party forming earlier though.
Yes, all of this sounds about right. :)

However, out of curiosity--why exactly did relations between Israel and the Soviet Union sour so much in spite of Israel being very socialist?
 
Yes, all of this sounds about right. :)

However, out of curiosity--why exactly did relations between Israel and the Soviet Union sour so much in spite of Israel being very socialist?

The Suez Crisis. Czechoslovakia and the Warsaw Pact sold weapons to Egypt and Syria, and the USSR used that to increase Soviet influence over the Middle East.
 
However, out of curiosity--why exactly did relations between Israel and the Soviet Union sour so much in spite of Israel being very socialist?

Stalin was a massive influence on why. There was the exceptionally stringent antisemitism in Communist Party, the Doctor's Plot, the Night of Murdered Poets, etc.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Stalin was a massive influence on why. There was the exceptionally stringent antisemitism in Communist Party, the Doctor's Plot, the Night of Murdered Poets, etc.
True, but Stalin died in 1953; why did the Soviet hostility towards Israel and Jews continue after Stalin's death?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Stalin, and the Suez Crisis. And the USSR carry on Tsarists Russia old antisemitism.
It is rather shocking for the Suez Crisis to initiate a wave of Soviet anti-Semitism that lasted for 35 years, though.

Also, Yes, Tsarist Russia was anti-Semitic; however, the Soviet Union was initially somewhat philo-Semitic and had many Jews in its top ranks in its early days.
 
It is rather shocking for the Suez Crisis to initiate a wave of Soviet anti-Semitism that lasted for 35 years, though.

Israel's collaboration with the colonialist powers against the downtrodden Egyptians cast them as the worst kind of capitalist oppressors, no matter what their rhetoric was.

Also, Yes, Tsarist Russia was anti-Semitic; however, the Soviet Union was initially somewhat philo-Semitic and had many Jews in its top ranks in its early days.

Describing the USSR as "philo-Semitic" is somewhat of an exaggeration. Yes, there were disproportionately many Jews in the top ranks, but the average Russian on the streets wasn't going to stop hating Jews just because of Trotsky and Kaganovich. If anything, the large number of Jews in the top ranks of the Party would only amplify his feelings of a Jewish conspiracy taking over Russia for its own nefarious purposes, especially if Ivan isn't the world's most diligent supporter of Marxism-Leninism.

Even among the intelligentsia, Jews were somewhat associated with the Mensheviks, who had had a proportionately higher number of Jews, and had formally aligned themselves with the Bund. Furthermore, when the idea of nationalist socialism and a federation of national socialist republics fell out of favor, Jews were tarred as reactionary and counterrevolutionary for the significant influence of "Jewish socialist" groups, and also for Zionism, even among those who did not support or even openly opposed it.
 
It is rather shocking for the Suez Crisis to initiate a wave of Soviet anti-Semitism that lasted for 35 years, though.

Also, Yes, Tsarist Russia was anti-Semitic; however, the Soviet Union was initially somewhat philo-Semitic and had many Jews in its top ranks in its early days.

The USSR wasn't philo-Semitic and describing it that way is... well, it's not the right term for it. Antisemitism was very much widespread in Tsarist Russia and Soviet Union. Jews were seen, especially by the Stalinist era, as "rootless cosmopolitans". Synagogues were shuttered, Jews harassed. And Stalin himself was exceptionally antisemitic and he actually used the Great Purge to get rid of Jewish rivals or had Jews specifically targeted. The Night of Murdered Poets saw prominent Yiddish actors, poets, playwrights, and intellectuals murdered by Stalin's order. After his death, Soviet leaders kept the antisemitism to policies rather than violence but they kept it going.
 
True, but Stalin died in 1953; why did the Soviet hostility towards Israel and Jews continue after Stalin's death?


I think Kosygin, in June 1967, best indicated why when he said to Johnson: "I don't understand you Americans backing Israel. There are 50 million arabs and only two million Israelis.." At first the USSR favored the creation of Israel. Later the Soviets just realized that in the struggle with the West for world influence, backing the much bigger arab world made better sense. Notice that not even the shattering defeat of arab forces in '67 changed this perception.
 
Israel (and pre-state Israel) was incredibly socialist and stayed that way until the 1977 election.
Were they though? I mean they were dominated by left-leaning parties, but, other than subsidising the kibbutzim, which only encompassed a tiny fraction of Israel's agriculture and population even at their height, and some welfare reforms and trade union rights, wasn't the majority of Israel's economy in the private sector? By that same token Sweden is incredibly socialist because they've been dominated by the Social Democrats for ages, despite the Social Democrats being among the most right-wing leftist parties.
 
Were they though? I mean they were dominated by left-leaning parties, but, other than subsidising the kibbutzim, which only encompassed a tiny fraction of Israel's agriculture and population even at their height, and some welfare reforms and trade union rights, wasn't the majority of Israel's economy in the private sector? By that same token Sweden is incredibly socialist because they've been dominated by the Social Democrats for ages, despite the Social Democrats being among the most right-wing leftist parties.

Up until around 1977, the Israeli government was pretty heavily involved with the various industries, and massive state intervention in pretty much all areas of the economy. Most of Israel's economy was public sector until the mid 1980s / early 1990s that privatization took hold, though the 1977 Likud government did start the ball rolling when they sold off a lot of Israeli government-run corporations and businesses
 
I can imagine a somewhat much more active cold war in the Middle East. Maybe more civil wars, Soviet and US backed coups, excetera. Maybe Soviet Union forments groups in Kurdistan and supports them against Iraq? US is likely to support : Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen. Soviet Union would be supporting Iran, Israel, a potentially independent Kurdistan with Soviet intervention, maybe independent Druze polity.

Geopolitically, Soviet Union is going to do everything possible to break a chain of pro-US arab states from the Mediterranean to the gulf.

This is pretty possible, remember that Arab states were originally in the US camp until the Arab revolutions in the 1930s-50s, where the upper classes were overthrown and replaced with socialize leaning middle classes that implemented land reform. The Middle East that follows a course were this doesn't happen is much closer with Europe, and would culturally somewhat look like Ataturk's Turkey in terms of secularism and society.

The real question is whether pan-arabism can even emerge in a non-socialist context. Assuming a early 1900s POD, and an arab world that alligns with US continuously, its much more likely that independent nationalism emerge contrasted with Soviet backed attempts to reinvigorate repressed minorities and ethnic groups within those states towards communism.
 
I can imagine a somewhat much more active cold war in the Middle East. Maybe more civil wars, Soviet and US backed coups, excetera. Maybe Soviet Union forments groups in Kurdistan and supports them against Iraq? US is likely to support : Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen. Soviet Union would be supporting Iran, Israel, a potentially independent Kurdistan with Soviet intervention, maybe independent Druze polity.

Geopolitically, Soviet Union is going to do everything possible to break a chain of pro-US arab states from the Mediterranean to the gulf.

This is pretty possible, remember that Arab states were originally in the US camp until the Arab revolutions in the 1930s-50s, where the upper classes were overthrown and replaced with socialize leaning middle classes that implemented land reform. The Middle East that follows a course were this doesn't happen is much closer with Europe, and would culturally somewhat look like Ataturk's Turkey in terms of secularism and society.

The real question is whether pan-arabism can even emerge in a non-socialist context. Assuming a early 1900s POD, and an arab world that alligns with US continuously, its much more likely that independent nationalism emerge contrasted with Soviet backed attempts to reinvigorate repressed minorities and ethnic groups within those states towards communism.


In World Of Laughter, World of Tears, President Disney supported Nasser, and lifted the bill for the Aswan Dam as to keep Egypt out of the Soviet Camp. (And which in turn Israel turn Red.)

So maybe something like that? Or something like that.
 
Were they though? I mean they were dominated by left-leaning parties, but, other than subsidising the kibbutzim, which only encompassed a tiny fraction of Israel's agriculture and population even at their height, and some welfare reforms and trade union rights, wasn't the majority of Israel's economy in the private sector? By that same token Sweden is incredibly socialist because they've been dominated by the Social Democrats for ages, despite the Social Democrats being among the most right-wing leftist parties.

Until liberalization starting in the late 70s, Israel's economy was largely nominally private, operated under heavy subsidy and quota systems, especially but not only in agriculture. At its peak, the general union ("Histadrut") counted about 80% of the Israeli working population among its members, as well as operating the largest bank and healthcare system (Israel's healthcare follows the German model, where most non-hospital medical care is provided from one of a handful of large, national providers). The Israeli government owned significant parts of many companies (including, e.g., an airplane company, the arms company, all ports...), and banks were highly regulated. All utilities were public, as was the telephone monopoly, and the bus and train systems (the latter still is). Taxes on businesses were high, making entrepreneurship fairly difficult.
 
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