Effects of Romans picking non-Christian state religion

samcster94

Banned
What are the effects of the Roman Empire adopting different religion? Christianity can still exist of course, but it can never be adopted or become as successful as OTL. Islam, of course, is nonexistent as it has Jesus as a prophet and formed later. Bonus points if you use Judaism or a non Christian derivative of it rather than a more standard alternative like Sol Invictus or the cult of Mithras.
 
Christianity is screwed.

Whatever replaces it
-needs to make people feel good
-needs centralized hierarchy
-needs central tenets for commoners to remember
-needs Imperial patronage
-needs money (i.e. wealthy converts)

This certainly does not fit Judaism in Rome. Any other Abrahamic clone religion... I could make up one out of nowhere that is plausible, but I could make a lot.

A non-Abrahamic religion is looking very likely.

Could also depend on time period. Does Christianity even exist? How widespread is it?
 
Christianity was doing fine before Constantine, so there's no reason to think it would suddenly become screwed just because the Empire continued the status quo of having a non-Christian official religion.

It was around 10% of the population, more in the cities and in the east but less rurally and in the West.
It was doing okay, but not outstanding.

What it did have was the meme to undermine Religio Roma when it found itself in a position of favor. Basically, 20% would follow whatever faith the emperor followed. Another 30% would give whatever faith the emperor followed serious consideration they wouldn't otherwise if what he was doing seemed to be working.

So, give the empire fifty years of Christian favoritism, you have a large number of people listening and buying in to a doctrine that says, "if you leave you are damned, stay and be saved" which is one of the memes perfectly designed to hit Roman religion at its weakest point and create a new paradigm.

Whatever faith that took over would need simular paradigm busting powers.
 
It was around 10% of the population, more in the cities and in the east but less rurally and in the West.
It was doing okay, but not outstanding.

Ten percent is the lowest bound; other sources put it as high as thirty. Even if it was only ten, though, going from zero to ten in the face of official hostility and persecution is still pretty good, and whilst being made the state religion was undoubtedly a major boost there's no reason to suppose it would be "screwed" if this didn't happen.
 
Doesn't it mainly depend on what happens after the Empire's collapse? Then it's down to which religion Barbarian kings take a fancy to.
 
Ten percent is the lowest bound; other sources put it as high as thirty. Even if it was only ten, though, going from zero to ten in the face of official hostility and persecution is still pretty good, and whilst being made the state religion was undoubtedly a major boost there's no reason to suppose it would be "screwed" if this didn't happen.

Also, Armenia adopted Christianity before the Roman Empire did, and Ethiopia roughly around the same time.
 
Assuming this religion goes full monotheistic and gets a version of Theodosius to persecute pagans and Christians, then Christianity is likely to remain at best a regional faith in Ethiopia and Georgia.
 
Assuming this religion goes full monotheistic and gets a version of Theodosius to persecute pagans and Christians, then Christianity is likely to remain at best a regional faith in Ethiopia and Georgia.


While the Empire lasts maybe. But once it's gone, there's nothing to stop Christianity emerging from the Catacombs again. It should do ok then unless all the Barbarian ruler join forces against it, which is most unlikely.
 
While the Empire lasts maybe. But once it's gone, there's nothing to stop Christianity emerging from the Catacombs again. It should do ok then unless all the Barbarian ruler join forces against it, which is most unlikely.
The barbarians will likely pick up whatever the "Roman" religion is for prestige reasons.
 
While the Empire lasts maybe. But once it's gone, there's nothing to stop Christianity emerging from the Catacombs again. It should do ok then unless all the Barbarian ruler join forces against it, which is most unlikely.
Why would any of the barbarian groups convert to Christianity in this timeline?
 
While the Empire lasts maybe. But once it's gone, there's nothing to stop Christianity emerging from the Catacombs again. It should do ok then unless all the Barbarian ruler join forces against it, which is most unlikely.

Assuming this religion follows the same path that Christianity took there may not be enough Christians left to make an impact even after the empire falls. It's what happened to the gnostics, the manichaeans, the arians, the Isis cult...
 

samcster94

Banned
Manichaeism?
I am no expert, but Manichaeism seems to be one of the better candidates, given they lacked the gender restrictions of some of the others(Mithras works well for armies, but lacks the ability for women to join and worship is secretive). Then again, they are clearly quite close to Christianity in theology(a bit like OTL Islam later on, but without the same military base). Sol Invictus may have worked, but was too politicized a bit like the time the ancient Egyptians briefly went monotheistic and destroyed statues. I never said Judaism was likely, but then again, we live in a timeline where Christianity, an obvious derivative, was picked.
 

samcster94

Banned
Assuming this religion follows the same path that Christianity took there may not be enough Christians left to make an impact even after the empire falls. It's what happened to the gnostics, the manichaeans, the arians, the Isis cult...
Christianity would live, at least for the short term, even if it limps along and is adopted by some obscure state. It would never be the dominant Western religion in TTL though.
 
The barbarians will likely pick up whatever the "Roman" religion is for prestige reasons.


If it's a real religion with a following of it's own. If it's just some artificial construct cooked up for the occasion by some Emperor or other, it presumably dies with the Empire.

Why would any of the barbarian groups convert to Christianity in this timeline?


Why not?

After all, over three centuries it kept on growing without any official support, and often in the face of official hostility. So presumably it keeps on growing (albeit more slowly) even without the conversion of
Constantine. And there'd be no reason for it to stop growing just because the Empire had collapsed.
 
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If it's a real religion with a following of it's own. If it's just some artificial construct cooked up for the occasion by some Emperor or other, it presumably dies with the Empire.




Why not?

After all, over three centuries it kept on growing without any official support, and often in the face of official hostility. So presumably it keeps on growing (albeit more slowly) even without the conversion of
Constantine. And there'd be no reason for it to stop growing just because the Empire had collapsed.
If it were cooked up by a particular emperor it wouldn't be the "Roman" religion it would just be that emperor's religion.
 
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