Effects Of Maratha India

[Brahman]

Maratha empire can be considered the last great Pan Indian Empire, they however collapsed due to wars across the regions from Afghans to Brits, so what if Marathas were more successful and were able to conquer most of South Asia, With minir PODs like Shivaji being alive longer and a stronger post Shivaji Peshwa period, Leading to conquest from Kabul to Kanyakumari and from Kalat to Assam, how would it affect the region and the world ?

 

[Brahman]

Bump
No One ?, Alright let me try to kickstart this thread -

• Maratha Empire is more lucky with minor PODs, Like Shivaji living longer, establishing a much more stronger Maratha Administration as well as a much more egalitarian in Nature like OTL
• Due to Ripple Effect, Marathas are much more effective, leading to their conquest of South, especially Hyderabad and Mysore along With Tamil States and In North in Awadh and Rajaputana States with Defeating Both Afghans and British for the Ownership of Punjab, Kabul and Bengal
• Over a Period of Time, Maratha Navy, with would be much stronger than in OTL, will be able to protect the coasts of India, perhaps even kicking out the Portuguese and Dutch from Sri Lanka
• As Such Marathas control an area from Kabul to Kandy and Kalat to Ahom with regional autonomy given at varying degrees
• Marathas Patronized Indian Local Languages as well as Sanskrit over Persian, as such it can lead to a Period of Indianisation across the Subcontinent
• Marathas still get out competed by the Europeans when it comes to Economy, as such we could see a Maratha being strong militarily, but weak economically, they could even be forced to open their markets like China

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

They would enforce their ideas of caste with even more urgency than the British and even though the British themselves had little skin in the game they managed to be harmful enough in making caste much more powerful and oppressive than it had ever been. I can only imagine the Marathas would be worse given that Marathi brahmins over centuries had developed a strong sense of belief in caste norms unmatched by other ethnicities.

perhaps even kicking out the Portuguese and Dutch from Sri Lanka

I fail to see why they'd want to do so- the Portuguese and Dutch are in no way serious rivals and provide checks to each other as well as valuable trade partners that have unique access to western curiosities.

As Such Marathas control an area from Kabul to Kandy and Kalat to Ahom with regional autonomy given at varying degrees

Theres the kicker, there is no way they can manage effective control and they in no way have the legitimacy of the Mughals so they're even more dependant on India's highly militarised society- i don't even know what nominal Maratha control of the entire subcontinent would look like? Probably a declaration from the Mughal emperor that they are allowed a portion of the tax revenue of everywhere that's technically part of his empire, notwithstanding the fact that that's never going to happen in practice?

Marathas Patronized Indian Local Languages as well as Sanskrit over Persian, as such it can lead to a Period of Indianisation across the Subcontinent

Weirdly actually, the experiment with reintroducing Sanskrit as an administrative language only lasted a decade or so in the 1680s and the Brahmin dominated peshwa government never tried it, preferring to conduct local affairs in the deshbhasha and international affairs within India in Persian. Perhaps though, Persian itself picks up more indianisms of the sort that Mughal officials tried so hard to prevent.

Due to Ripple Effect, Marathas are much more effective, leading to their conquest of South, especially Hyderabad and Mysore along With Tamil States and In North in Awadh and Rajaputana States with Defeating Both Afghans and British for the Ownership of Punjab, Kabul and Bengal

Very handwavey- i maintain the impossibility and undesirability of this given the more predatory and exploitative nature of the Maratha confederacy than their more centralised predecessors.

 

[Brahman]

They would enforce their ideas of caste with even more urgency than the British and even though the British themselves had little skin in the game they managed to be harmful enough in making caste much more powerful and oppressive than it had ever been. I can only imagine the Marathas would be worse given that Marathi brahmins over centuries had developed a strong sense of belief in caste norms unmatched by other ethnicities.

Maratha , especially during Peshwa's time was definitely Caste Based, but Shivaji was definitely not a Caste Based ruler, he recruited from all castes and religions, If he lived longer, we could see a much more socially mobile form of caste system, where social mobility is possible

I fail to see why they'd want to do so- the Portuguese and Dutch are in no way serious rivals and provide checks to each other as well as valuable trade partners that have unique access to western curiosities.

They will try to turn Sri Lanka into a Vassal State, as it will be used as a launchpad against India in any attacks

Theres the kicker, there is no way they can manage effective control and they in no way have the legitimacy of the Mughals so they're even more dependant on India's highly militarised society- i don't even know what nominal Maratha control of the entire subcontinent would look like? Probably a declaration from the Mughal emperor that they are allowed a portion of the tax revenue of everywhere that's technically part of his empire, notwithstanding the fact that that's never going to happen in practice?

Perhaps something in which Marathas are able to either vassalise the Mughals or Marry into them, and yes, there will be a system of Decentralisation and Centralisation in order to control such a vast empire

Weirdly actually, the experiment with reintroducing Sanskrit as an administrative language only lasted a decade or so in the 1680s and the Brahmin dominated peshwa government never tried it, preferring to conduct local affairs in the deshbhasha and international affairs within India in Persian. Perhaps though, Persian itself picks up more indianisms of the sort that Mughal officials tried so hard to prevent.

Again, if Shivaji lived long enough, Sanskrit would be Patronized, if Peshwas do use Persian or Hindustani, it will become heavily Sanskritised

Very handwavey- i maintain the impossibility and undesirability of this given the more predatory and exploitative nature of the Maratha confederacy than their more centralised predecessors.

Ofcourse, each Maratha Dynasty rules its own region, however, they could all agree upon some common rules in order to maintain stability, perhaps it is more similiar to Houses in Sassanian Dynasty, where each House try to gain control of the position of Chattrapathi through politics but are united against external threats

 

[Beacon]

They will try to turn Sri Lanka into a Vassal State, as it will be used as a launchpad against India in any attacks

We know this is true from our knowledge of colonialism but this is not something that the Marathas would be expected to understand.
To them, the Europeans are traders who can bring technology, so they would be fine with them having some small port slightly away from their lands.

Ofcourse, each Maratha Dynasty rules its own region, however, they could all agree upon some common rules in order to maintain stability, perhaps it is more similiar to Houses in Sassanian Dynasty, where each House try to gain control of the position of Chattrapathi through politics but are united against external threats

The problem here is that none of the dynasties would agree to that. Each of them wanted to rule over the other and the only way to stop that was to have one absolutely strong and legitimate ruler or some strong institutions that none of them could go against. Your POD of Shivaji living longer is not enough for the second, but might be enough for the first, if he is able to keep Sambhaji away from the throne and properly train Rajaram then you get the strong ruler. This means that Rajaram might be able to rule long enough to deal with the Mughals while using his brother as a wild card to deal havoc on the Northern states.

The main reason this didn't happen OTL was because both Sambhaji and Rajaram died before they could leave lasting legacies. Their children were infants when they died and there was a suspicion that those infants were not really from Shivaji's lineage (this is especially the case with Rajaram II who was suspected to be an excuse for Tarabai to rule as regent and when she was not allowed to be regent, she said that Rajaram II was just some random orphan). This resulted in the Bhonsle rulers becoming titular kings while Peshwa and other rulers seized power from the Chhatrapati.

 

[Brahman]

We know this is true from our knowledge of colonialism but this is not something that the Marathas would be expected to understand.
To them, the Europeans are traders who can bring technology, so they would be fine with them having some small port slightly away from their lands.

Europeans are rivals, France could help Marathas against the British by alerting them of their intentions

The problem here is that none of the dynasties would agree to that. Each of them wanted to rule over the other and the only way to stop that was to have one absolutely strong and legitimate ruler or some strong institutions that none of them could go against. Your POD of Shivaji living longer is not enough for the second, but might be enough for the first, if he is able to keep Sambhaji away from the throne and properly train Rajaram then you get the strong ruler. This means that Rajaram might be able to rule long enough to deal with the Mughals while using his brother as a wild card to deal havoc on the Northern states.

Well thats what my entire thread is about, its the effects of Maratha India due to few but crucial PODs, onevof them could be this, How do you see a Maratha India develop ?

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

A Maratha state which is more firmly rooted along the vision Shivaji had for it- modern, centralised, directly administered by salaried bureaucrats rather than local chiefs cannot extend very far beyond Maharashtra even in the best of circumstances, owing to the depth of local knowledge needed by the government and the fact that that level of commitment and trust in the government from village society can only come when the government is seen as one of their own. There is a reason that when the Marathas abandoned the vision of an independent Maharashtra and started seeking power across the subcontinent, they were forced to decentralise- Shivaji worked as a founding figure but in effect very very little of the government he set up survived beyond 1700.

Furthermore, a state on Shivajis model desperately desperately needs a way to negate the Mughal overwhelming superiority in pitched battles and ability to conquer territory even if not to hold it. Because of this superiority, the Marathas were forced into Guerilla warfare and instead of establishing an independent state they were forced to corrupt and weaken the Mughal government from within. This could even be a diplomatic solution, but that's made difficult simply because of who Aurangzeb was as a person- unwilling to compromise and determined to give it his all at all times even if it bled his government dry. Perhaps you could have Aurangzeb die around the 1670s but in this case it's highly unlikely the new ruler would undermine the independence of the Deccan sultanates, which is where the ultimate loyalty of the Maratha chiefs lie as long as they are viable options.

Marathas are able to either vassalise the Mughals or Marry into them

Completely impossible given the political philosophy of the age- not until the 1850s were the British even thinking of subordinating Mughal de jure authority to their own.

Houses in Sassanian Dynasty, where each House try to gain control of the position of Chattrapathi through politics but are united against external threats

An example which has no basis in Indian political thought of either the sanskritic or persianate traditions which flies in the face of the situation on the ground? The Sassanian houses were seen as the primordial ancient rulers of the land, they have legitimacy of their own but only in certain forms- undermining another houses claim undermined your own claim to your own land. The Marathas only legitimacy is military force and undermining others claims strengthens your own- it's a completely different game.

Europeans are rivals, France could help Marathas against the British by alerting them of their intentions

What intentions? Here you are talking of a pod in the 1670s when the British aren't even the most important European company in India and when no company factor would ever dream of controlling substantial amounts of land, and then you take for granted the rise of the British economic power in Bengal in the 1730s and imply a British desire to control the entire subcontinent which simply didn't exist until the 1800s at the very earliest.

Well thats what my entire thread is about, its the effects of Maratha India due to few but crucial PODs, onevof them could be this, How do you see a Maratha India develop

It's really impossible to say with out a clearer definition of how this happened and under what circumstances- personally I see no situation where any Maratha state has conquered the entire subcontinent until at least the mid 1800s, and I highly highly doubt it was ever in their capabilities to not just conquer but to hold the entire thing.

 

[Brahman]

A Maratha state which is more firmly rooted along the vision Shivaji had for it- modern, centralised, directly administered by salaried bureaucrats rather than local chiefs cannot extend very far beyond Maharashtra even in the best of circumstances, owing to the depth of local knowledge needed by the government and the fact that that level of commitment and trust in the government from village society can only come when the government is seen as one of their own. There is a reason that when the Marathas abandoned the vision of an independent Maharashtra and started seeking power across the subcontinent, they were forced to decentralise- Shivaji worked as a founding figure but in effect very very little of the government he set up survived beyond 1700.

Furthermore, a state on Shivajis model desperately desperately needs a way to negate the Mughal overwhelming superiority in pitched battles and ability to conquer territory even if not to hold it. Because of this superiority, the Marathas were forced into Guerilla warfare and instead of establishing an independent state they were forced to corrupt and weaken the Mughal government from within. This could even be a diplomatic solution, but that's made difficult simply because of who Aurangzeb was as a person- unwilling to compromise and determined to give it his all at all times even if it bled his government dry. Perhaps you could have Aurangzeb die around the 1670s but in this case it's highly unlikely the new ruler would undermine the independence of the Deccan sultanates, which is where the ultimate loyalty of the Maratha chiefs lie as long as they are viable options.

I agree with this statement,If Shivaji lived longer and is able to successfully kill or atleast defeat Aurangzeb in any one of his numerous battles, could have been able to expand beyond the borders of Maharashtra

Completely impossible given the political philosophy of the age- not until the 1850s were the British even thinking of subordinating Mughal de jure authority to their own.

Didn't the Marathas keep Mughals as puppets in OTL ?

What intentions? Here you are talking of a pod in the 1670s when the British aren't even the most important European company in India and when no company factor would ever dream of controlling substantial amounts of land, and then you take for granted the rise of the British economic power in Bengal in the 1730s and imply a British desire to control the entire subcontinent which simply didn't exist until the 1800s at the very earliest.

What I was trying to convey was that Marathas could play European against each other, Marathas did put up a formidable resistance against the British in OTL even in an weakened state, they could certainly do the same ITTL

It's really impossible to say with out a clearer definition of how this happened and under what circumstances- personally I see no situation where any Maratha state has conquered the entire subcontinent until at least the mid 1800s, and I highly highly doubt it was ever in their capabilities to not just conquer but to hold the entire thing.

Aleight,Think of this entire scenario as a Wanked Marathas, could you wank them enough to conquer all of south Asia ir atleast most of it ?

 

[Beacon]

Europeans are rivals, France could help Marathas against the British by alerting them of their intentions
Well thats what my entire thread is about, its the effects of Maratha India due to few but crucial PODs, onevof them could be this, How do you see a Maratha India develop ?

Fair enough, I'll try not to go too far off topic.

Either Sambhaji or Rajaram make better use of the Ashtha Pradhan - Eight Ministers, more than they did OTL at least, and make sure that the ministers don't spend all their time enriching themselves.
The Mughal Empire under Aurangzeb was the pre-eminent power in India at the time. So the existential threat of the Mughal Empire will have to dealt with, or at least brought to such a state that it can no longer destroy the Marathas on a whim. This can likely happen by ensuring that Aurangzeb's heirs fight over the throne once he dies, seizing some land and claiming that the Marathas are administrating it in the name of whoever wins (it will probably be seen as blatant land-grabbing by the mughals will be busy then so it doesn't matter).

Instead of the Peshwa seizing power, the eight ministers together administer the maratha kingdom while the king is busy fighting. The taxation policies in the kingdom were kinda tyrannical as they had to fight more and more wars but with better administration this would probably be slightly less tyrannical. Once the Mughals are no longer an issue, that's when the Marathas can develop culturally. Local languages were generally given precedence. Marathi and Sanskrit were considered to be the state languages. This would lead to some interesting literature that would be widely read across the kingdom and later, the empire.

Marathas were widely known to patronise religion so I think various local temples be built or repaired after decades of being left to rot and religious institutions would gain funds necessary to operate more often.
Festivals like Ganesh Chaturthi would be more celebrated and future rulers might even call for a celebration of their victory over the Mughals or on Shivaji's birthday (as is done in OTL).

A Maratha state which is more firmly rooted along the vision Shivaji had for it- modern, centralised, directly administered by salaried bureaucrats rather than local chiefs cannot extend very far beyond Maharashtra even in the best of circumstances, owing to the depth of local knowledge needed by the government and the fact that that level of commitment and trust in the government from village society can only come when the government is seen as one of their own. There is a reason that when the Marathas abandoned the vision of an independent Maharashtra and started seeking power across the subcontinent, they were forced to decentralise- Shivaji worked as a founding figure but in effect very very little of the government he set up survived beyond 1700.

Furthermore, a state on Shivajis model desperately desperately needs a way to negate the Mughal overwhelming superiority in pitched battles and ability to conquer territory even if not to hold it. Because of this superiority, the Marathas were forced into Guerilla warfare and instead of establishing an independent state they were forced to corrupt and weaken the Mughal government from within. This could even be a diplomatic solution, but that's made difficult simply because of who Aurangzeb was as a person- unwilling to compromise and determined to give it his all at all times even if it bled his government dry. Perhaps you could have Aurangzeb die around the 1670s but in this case it's highly unlikely the new ruler would undermine the independence of the Deccan sultanates, which is where the ultimate loyalty of the Maratha chiefs lie as long as they are viable options.

Your point about commitment and trust in the government is extremely valid, even in today's time. So maybe something that today's government uses as a solution to this might be possible. The Panchayat system existed in India from ancient times, so if the marathas adopt it, they would gain legitimacy in the eyes of their rural subjects as the villages would see it as a form of self-rule. A sort of decentralisation which lets villagers elect local elders to govern themselves.

Also, the Aurangzeb issue can be easily dealt with by either encouraging one of his sons to rebel against him in the north while he is in the south, and then attacking his supply lines. This worked OTL when maratha generals were able to halt mughal sieges of maratha forts. Eventually however, he would either have to be killed or given the Shah Jahan treatment aka house arrest. Once that's done, marathas can more easily deal with the mughals since Aurangzeb wasted a lot of the mughal resources trying to conquer the deccan.

 

[Emperor of Greater India]

Snip

Well I firstly don't understand why you think Rajaram would be a better ruler than Sambhaji. Care to explain ?

Tarabai's son was Shivaji II not Rajaram II. I don't know about Shivaji II, but Shahu was definitely Sambhaji's son and was not really an infant as much a toddler when his father was murdered.

 

[Brahman]

Either Sambhaji or Rajaram make better use of the Ashtha Pradhan - Eight Ministers, more than they did OTL at least, and make sure that the ministers don't spend all their time enriching themselves.
The Mughal Empire under Aurangzeb was the pre-eminent power in India at the time. So the existential threat of the Mughal Empire will have to dealt with, or at least brought to such a state that it can no longer destroy the Marathas on a whim. This can likely happen by ensuring that Aurangzeb's heirs fight over the throne once he dies, seizing some land and claiming that the Marathas are administrating it in the name of whoever wins (it will probably be seen as blatant land-grabbing by the mughals will be busy then so it doesn't matter).

You could do it by having Shivaji live longer and as such is able to raise his children better, which will lead a much stronger Maratha empire in the future ad its not like Aurangzeb is some invincible being, Sikhs would have revolted any way and his massive milllion man strong moving capital in Deccan to hunt Marathas would be really hurtful for the economy like OTL, all it would take is his death in battle or assassination to trigger a succession dispute in Delhi and inevitable revolt from Sikhs

Instead of the Peshwa seizing power, the eight ministers together administer the maratha kingdom while the king is busy fighting. The taxation policies in the kingdom were kinda tyrannical as they had to fight more and more wars but with better administration this would probably be slightly less tyrannical. Once the Mughals are no longer an issue, that's when the Marathas can develop culturally. Local languages were generally given precedence. Marathi and Sanskrit were considered to be the state languages. This would lead to some interesting literature that would be widely read across the kingdom and later, the empire.

Marathas were widely known to patronise religion so I think various local temples be built or repaired after decades of being left to rot and religious institutions would gain funds necessary to operate more often.
Festivals like Ganesh Chaturthi would be more celebrated and future rulers might even call for a celebration of their victory over the Mughals or on Shivaji's birthday

Both of these would be agreed but one thing is needed, Maratha wanted to conquer Delhi after the conquest Deccan, something similiar would happen, but I do see that Marathas would patronise local tradition, languages and religion, perhaps being the first ever truely native North Indian dynasty in almost 5 centuries, perhaps leading to conquest if Sindh and Afghania

 

[Brahman]

How much can Marathas be realistically wanked ?

 

[Emperor of Greater India]

How much can Marathas be realistically wanked ?

If you really want Chhatrapati Shivaji's ideals to be maintained in governance, until the late 18th century, everything south of the Narmada and probably Southern Gujarat and Malwa; with parts of the extreme South being somewhat autonomous.

 

[Brahman]

If you really want Chhatrapati Shivaji's ideals to be maintained in governance, until the late 18th century, everything south of the Narmada and probably Southern Gujarat and Malwa; with parts of the extreme South being somewhat autonomous.

Not just Shivaji's ideals, just a form of Marstha empire across India

 

[Beacon]

Well I firstly don't understand why you think Rajaram would be a better ruler than Sambhaji. Care to explain ?

Tarabai's son was Shivaji II not Rajaram II. I don't know about Shivaji II, but Shahu was definitely Sambhaji's son and was not really an infant as much a toddler when his father was murdered.

I'll have to go through a couple of books as to why but iirc it was because Sambhaji got addicted to opium or some other drugs and became a wastrel and Shivaji decided to put him under house arrest and named Rajaram as his heir. Rajaram would be better because Sambhaji directly undermined the importance of the administrative side of his kingdom and only focused on the military side. He was quite a zealous ruler and indiscriminately attacked even weaker powers in the area like the Portuguese and the English that could have been brought over to his side. Granted that all this was mostly because he was being constantly besieged by the Mughals but it did put the kingdom in disarray after he was captured and killed. Rajaram was a more defensive ruler and relied on his administrative mechanisms than the offensive rule of Sambhaji, which I think would be better since Sambhaji pushed all the neighbouring powers into the arms of the Mughals.

And just to clarify it was Rajaram II who was (supposedly) Tarabai's grandson - actually the son of Shivaji II but then adopted by Shahu I. Then later once Shahu died, she said he was just a random orphan but the Peshwa and other ministers just kept him on as the titular king.

How much can Marathas be realistically wanked ?

I tried to write a Maratha wank story with a SI but I've had trouble actually putting down words to the page cus of the quarantine and all the terrible shit that's been going on. Hopefully once things settle down for me I'll be able to write again. The end goal for that story was to write a technologically and culturally advanced, proto-socialist federation of nations which consisted of parts of OTL Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nepal, India, Bangaldesh, Bhutan and Sri Lanka.

 

[Brahman]

I'll have to go through a couple of books as to why but iirc it was because Sambhaji got addicted to opium or some other drugs and became a wastrel and Shivaji decided to put him under house arrest and named Rajaram as his heir. Rajaram would be better because Sambhaji directly undermined the importance of the administrative side of his kingdom and only focused on the military side. He was quite a zealous ruler and indiscriminately attacked even weaker powers in the area like the Portuguese and the English that could have been brought over to his side. Granted that all this was mostly because he was being constantly besieged by the Mughals but it did put the kingdom in disarray after he was captured and killed. Rajaram was a more defensive ruler and relied on his administrative mechanisms than the offensive rule of Sambhaji, which I think would be better since Sambhaji pushed all the neighbouring powers into the arms of the Mughals.

And just to clarify it was Rajaram II who was (supposedly) Tarabai's grandson - actually the son of Shivaji II but then adopted by Shahu I. Then later once Shahu died, she said he was just a random orphan but the Peshwa and other ministers just kept him on as the titular king.



I tried to write a Maratha wank story with a SI but I've had trouble actually putting down words to the page cus of the quarantine and all the terrible shit that's been going on. Hopefully once things settle down for me I'll be able to write again. The end goal for that story was to write a technologically and culturally advanced, proto-socialist federation of nations which consisted of parts of OTL Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nepal, India, Bangaldesh, Bhutan and Sri Lanka.

Thats really great, would it be a scenario in which Marathas conquer all of South Asia and local maratha houses rule different parts of the country and these regions all come together as an union

 

[Emperor of Greater India]

snip

Drug addicted wastrel ?! Well you really should cite those books, 'cause if the authors are saying that, it is they who must be high on some pretty potent stuff or one of those trying real hard to tarnish the name of Chhatrapati Shivaji and his direct descendents( mostly Sambhaji) . The gods know there have been a lot of them.

As to Sambhaji being military focussed, that is true, because the Maratha state was indeed besieged by hostile forces since, well, the death of his father. The Brits had broken the trade agreements regarding cannon purchases signed with Shivaji Maharaj and had started interdicting Maratha naval traffic without provocation as well as providing munitions to the Mughals. The Portuguese begun aiding Aurangzeb's invasion by supplying them cannons, gunpowder and men to fire them. So you can't really accuse him of being a warmonger when he was merely fending off genuine threats to his state after dealing with a coup right before his coronation, you can't help but be paranoid right ?

As to Shahu I adopting Shivaji II 's son well how is that possible (even if he's not his son or whatever) ? Tou do know that the Tarabai used her son's claim to fight a Civil war right ? That's what created the Kingdom of Kolhapur who maintained pretensions to the throne in Satara right up until at least Shahu I's death (after that that the claim sorta became irrelevant but was never dropped). Rajaram II might have had other origins, and well I surely know he was no blood relation of the royal clan.

As to your TL attempt, I surely look forward to reading it once you get around to posting it.

 

[Beacon]

Drug addicted wastrel ?! Well you really should cite those books, 'cause if the authors are saying that, it is they who must be high on some pretty potent stuff or one of those trying real hard to tarnish the name of Chhatrapati Shivaji and his direct descendents( mostly Sambhaji) . The gods know there have been a lot of them.

As to Sambhaji being military focussed, that is true, because the Maratha state was indeed besieged by hostile forces since, well, the death of his father. The Brits had broken the trade agreements regarding cannon purchases signed with Shivaji Maharaj and had started interdicting Maratha naval traffic without provocation as well as providing munitions to the Mughals. The Portuguese begun aiding Aurangzeb's invasion by supplying them cannons, gunpowder and men to fire them. So you can't really accuse him of being a warmonger when he was merely fending off genuine threats to his state after dealing with a coup right before his coronation, you can't help but be paranoid right ?

As to Shahu I adopting Shivaji II 's son well how is that possible (even if he's not his son or whatever) ? Tou do know that the Tarabai used her son's claim to fight a Civil war right ? That's what created the Kingdom of Kolhapur who maintained pretensions to the throne in Satara right up until at least Shahu I's death (after that that the claim sorta became irrelevant but was never dropped). Rajaram II might have had other origins, and well I surely know he was no blood relation of the royal clan.

As to your TL attempt, I surely look forward to reading it once you get around to posting it.

It's actually quite confusing since we have first-hand accounts that Sambhaji was addicted to wine, drugs and "sensual pleasures". And that he apparently "violated" a brahmin woman. But these accounts were written by his enemies at Shivaji's court who wanted to crown Rajaram instead of Sambhaji. We do know that Shivaji put him under house arrest for some reason, whether this was because of his "violation" of brahmin woman or because he was investigating those accusations, we do not know for sure. There are not many unbiased sources from that time since Keshav Swami Purohit who wrote biographies for many of the Chhatrapatis was biased for Sambhaji and his accounts expound on him being a great and powerful ruler, while accounts by Malhar Ramrao Chitnis (one of his enemies) are biased against him and say he was a wastrel and a womaniser. Most academics take the side of Chitnis since we have muslim sources that agree with Sambhaji being addicted to drugs.

Shivaji II gave birth to a son posthumously, since he died of smallpox. Tarabai and Rajasbai both fought for their sons Shivaji II and Sambhaji II to become ruler of Kolhapur which Sambhaji II won. Tarabai had to leave and went to Shahu I. Even though Shahu I had four wives, he got only daughters, so he agreed to adopt Shivaji II's posthumous son Rajaram II. Shahu I and Rajaram II were rulers of Satara. It was generally agreed by most people that he was actually from Shivaji's lineage, but the ministers were still suspicious. Later, Tarabai disclosed to the Peshwa that Rajaram II was actually just a random orphan, but he still kept him as the Chhatrapati in Satara. Basically Sambhaji's line died out, so the (supposed) son of Rajaram was kept as the Chhatrapati in Satara, while the Chhatrapatis in Kolhapur ruler there. Both of the lines were titular rulers, with power being focused with the Peshwa.

And thanks for the encouragement!

 

[Brahman]

It's actually quite confusing since we have first-hand accounts that Sambhaji was addicted to wine, drugs and "sensual pleasures". And that he apparently "violated" a brahmin woman. But these accounts were written by his enemies at Shivaji's court who wanted to crown Rajaram instead of Sambhaji. We do know that Shivaji put him under house arrest for some reason, whether this was because of his "violation" of brahmin woman or because he was investigating those accusations, we do not know for sure. There are not many unbiased sources from that time since Keshav Swami Purohit who wrote biographies for many of the Chhatrapatis was biased for Sambhaji and his accounts expound on him being a great and powerful ruler, while accounts by Malhar Ramrao Chitnis (one of his enemies) are biased against him and say he was a wastrel and a womaniser. Most academics take the side of Chitnis since we have muslim sources that agree with Sambhaji being addicted to drugs.

Shivaji II gave birth to a son posthumously, since he died of smallpox. Tarabai and Rajasbai both fought for their sons Shivaji II and Sambhaji II to become ruler of Kolhapur which Sambhaji II won. Tarabai had to leave and went to Shahu I. Even though Shahu I had four wives, he got only daughters, so he agreed to adopt Shivaji II's posthumous son Rajaram II. Shahu I and Rajaram II were rulers of Satara. It was generally agreed by most people that he was actually from Shivaji's lineage, but the ministers were still suspicious. Later, Tarabai disclosed to the Peshwa that Rajaram II was actually just a random orphan, but he still kept him as the Chhatrapati in Satara. Basically Sambhaji's line died out, so the (supposed) son of Rajaram was kept as the Chhatrapati in Satara, while the Chhatrapatis in Kolhapur ruler there. Both of the lines were titular rulers, with power being focused with the Peshwa.

And thanks for the encouragement!

Perhaps the Maratha could be like the Mongols, where one Ruler is based on Pune and is the Absolute ruler, by other are significant autonomy and conquer other parts of India and pay lip service to rulers in Pune, only being with them when a foreign enemy attacks

 

[Kaushlendra pratap singh]

First, we have to talk about the problem faced by Maratha -
1- The Chhatrapati Shahu -
- he a saint person, who stopped Peshwa from fortification of Maratha ruled land.
-he saves Nizam from Peshwa in 1727 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palkhed, the continued co-rule of Maratha and Nizam give the false sense of security to Peshwa in the latter era and suddenly Nizam was in the enemy camp.
-He died childlessly, the chieftain of Maratha almost all of them were rise in their position in Shahu era never have any inbuilt loyalty to Bhonsle linage only for Shahu or Peshwa, on the otherwise Peshwa had a clear line of succession for three-generation, they command army and purse of the empire.
2- Money-
- Maratha second problem arises from the revenue side, they always were in debt of Brahmin banker of Maharashtra.
- when the sap in the revenue closes around 1758, Peshwa went into the crisis after the third battle of Panipat.
3-Leadership -
it comes in the last era of the Maratha empire.
4-Mughal noble -
-an ecosystem of Afghan, Turk and Persian nobility built over centuries. It had taken over five hundred years for invaders to totally dominate India’s cow belt region and to reverse the process would take time. The Mughal Empire’s decay had increased the political power of second in command Nawabs, Nizams and landlords, nearly all of them Muslims. Except for the Rajputs, Surajmal and the Bundelas, hardly any Hindu ruler had reaped the harvest of a falling Mughal empire. The administration remained firmly in Afghan or Turkic hands, albeit without the unifying factor of the Mughal.
-Till the latter part of Aurangzeb’s rule, more than seventy per cent of Mughal nobility was Muslim and of these, two-thirds were of foreign origin(North India)!
- this foreign nature of Nobility in Delhi made the always threaten the western border of India, they can ask from Afghan or Persian power to come and help the Mughal emperor.
-it's not about the legitimacy of Mughal rule, it was danger of army from Western border stop Maratha to depose emperor.
- if they defeated Afghan in 1761, they will be independent for 20-30 years from any another invasion from the western border, they will have time to ramp up the bureaucracy in North India.

Note-Please read The New Cambridge History of India-Gordon, Stewart (1993). The Marathas 1600-1818. p. 211. , it is a must-read book for knowing about Maratha and their rule.