Effects of large-scale French immigration into North America during the 19th century?

[TheKutKu]

Hi! This is assuming either a larger demographic growth in France, or/and extreme instabilities - not that france already didn't suffer during that century IRL - that lead to several million Frenchmen going to north america, let's say around the number of germans that went to the United States, so about 6 million. This is with a post louisiana purchase POD, and concerns both the United States, British America/Canada and any other states that may be created because of butterflies.

In the Early 19th century many places in (Greater) Louisiana or Maine still had a substantial french speaking Population, this would have made a cultural fertile ground for future immigration, but it never came IRL, would these area - and others in Canada become a french majority later?

During most of the 19th century most french didn't actually speak "French" but a variety of dialects or local languages, Earlier this influenced Acadian and Canadian French, what would the effects be on the local language? I guess there would be much variety in the french spoken in North america like there is/was in American german dialects.

How would the English majority (with potentially German migrants, if they aren't butterflied away) react to the millions - who would later become dozens of millions - of additional Catholic coming in North America? Additionally if British Canada stays a french majority beyond the late 18th/early 19th century unlike IRL, what would the effects be on its governance? The Lower Canada and Metis rebellions may be much harder to crack down on.

If frenchmen settle into the Mississippi bassin - that isn't a given, they could simply go to the more easily accessible north east - and they manage to keep their identity, would they clash with the American forces and settlers wanting to go west?

Thanks for your answers.

 

[Mark E.]

If they came early enough (before 1830) they would establish French-speaking enclaves because there was land to be settled. Southern Louisiana, west of New Orleans, remained monolithically Cajun French through the 19th century, but the upper Mississippi would see an influx of German and Irish settlers in the upcoming decades. Eventually they would assimilate as did immigrants from the rest of Europe. The pressure would be on to use English as the language of law and commerce.

 

[TheKutKu]

If they came early enough (before 1830) they would establish French-speaking enclaves because there was land to be settled. Southern Louisiana, west of New Orleans, remained monolithically Cajun French through the 19th century, but the upper Mississippi would see an influx of German and Irish settlers in the upcoming decades. Eventually they would assimilate as did immigrants from the rest of Europe. The pressure would be on to use English as the language of law and commerce.

Would french be more resilient, as frenchmen would maybe be less prone to use english? Or am i wongly applying contemporary concepts? IRL French enclaves are resiliant for their small size - at least when they first went to america, comparatively to the scale of immigration are German or Italian enclaves - except amish - more resilient?

 

[Foushoo]

Depending on what caused this mass emigration, I'd think, the French would mainly settle where ever another group had already found success. This is because, as a predominantly Catholic group, the French would likely find it hard to live too far from church services. Most common French people would more likely want to be able to attend church at a cathedral connected in some way to the Vatican. This is possible in a city that already has a large enough population to facilitate a Cathedral, but without this population, it would be fairly difficult to do so effectively.
On another note, The Know-nothings would likely have more fodder but I don't know if this would necessarily change how much support they'd receive compared to OTL.

 

[Gabingston]

I wonder if the British would try to restrict French immigration to Canada in order to keep the French Canadians from becoming the dominant ethnic group in Canada.

 

[Mark E.]

I wonder if the British would try to restrict French immigration to Canada in order to keep the French Canadians from becoming the dominant ethnic group in Canada.

The British forced the Arcadians to Louisiana, so I don't think they would have interfered with French settlement west of the Mississippi. That state was very French at the time of the Louisiana Purchase. Soon, New Orleans would diversify with shipping and river traffic. The Atchafalaya basin, though remained isolated and French until the late 19th century when oil was discovered. The state outlawed French language schools in 1928 and as a result my father and his younger sisters were not allowed to learn French, even their older siblings did. If that could happen in a region with a century and a half of French heritage, I find it doubtful that the French would be any more successful than the Germans in continuing their language many generations forward.

 

[funnyhat]

The British forced the Arcadians to Louisiana, so I don't think they would have interfered with French settlement west of the Mississippi.

The British did not plan for the Acadiens to go to Louisiana. They were deported across the British colonies and later, some managed to make it all the way to Louisiana (where the Spanish government allowed them refuge).

 

[Mark E.]

The British did not plan for the Acadiens to go to Louisiana. They were deported across the British colonies and later, some managed to make it all the way to Louisiana (where the Spanish government allowed them refuge).

Louisiana already had French settlers before the migration. My own family tree identifies three direct ancestors born there before 1750.

 

[funnyhat]

Louisiana already had French settlers before the migration. My own family tree identifies three direct ancestors born there before 1750.

Yes, the Créoles. This year is the 300th anniversary of New Orleans, in fact. Their population was not that large before the arrival of the Acadiens, though.

 

[Marc]

You would need some striking motivations for a significant mass emigration from France similar to the German's, Irish, Italians, Eastern Europeans. On a historical basis, numerically, while the French diaspora is quite extensive, for the most part the French are among the less inclined to leave their native country; for a variety of reasons.

 

[Tripledot]

Would french be more resilient, as frenchmen would maybe be less prone to use english? Or am i wongly applying contemporary concepts? IRL French enclaves are resiliant for their small size - at least when they first went to america, comparatively to the scale of immigration are German or Italian enclaves - except amish - more resilient?

German was actually a widespread language in the United States until the First World War, when anti-German sentiment resulted in the language's suppression.

 

[DTF955Baseballfan]

Depending on what caused this mass emigration, I'd think, the French would mainly settle where ever another group had already found success. This is because, as a predominantly Catholic group, the French would likely find it hard to live too far from church services. Most common French people would more likely want to be able to attend church at a cathedral connected in some way to the Vatican. This is possible in a city that already has a large enough population to facilitate a Cathedral, but without this population, it would be fairly difficult to do so effectively.
On another note, The Know-nothings would likely have more fodder but I don't know if this would necessarily change how much support they'd receive compared to OTL.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I have quite a few French on one side of my family who belonged to the Reformed/Huguenots and settled in NE Ohio. There was a substantial population (compared to others) of people from Northern France who were escaping being a minority but also from the Alps which leads to what I see as a 10-15% chance they may trace back to the Waldensians.

That's another story, though.

These people came in the 1820s to 1850s, with my ancestors coming in the early 1840s and one in 1856 or so. Presumign that they came becasue of the restoration of the Monarchy and increased Catholic control of things, I wonder if a stronger Curch might lead to most of the othr Huguenots leaving, too. NE Ohio was ideal for farming for them and not near the bigger cities. Which goes to the point above about how the Catholics would prefer the bigger cities but the Protestant French would likely be okay anywhere, jsut as long as they could find a travellign preacher.

 

[Wendell]

More use of French idioms and flourishes by Americans? More southern Catholics?

 

[Sevarics]

What about St Louis Missouri as a possible place for the French to settle?

 

[TimTurner]

Give France a different 1800s (some kind of rerun of the 1500s?) you might see massive emigration?

 

[TheArbiterofAwesome]

Moving that many people into French Louisiana in such a relatively short period of time would mean much more disease. It's a subtropical climate with lots of links to tropical ports and, by extension, was subject to waves of tropical disease outbreaks that would hit the ports then travel upriver to trading settlements. There were numerous plagues in that timeframe. Here in Mobile we had repeated outbreaks of Yellow Fever that kept the population down. Adding more would just exacerbate the problem until people got to spread out more and that would mean more conflict with plains area natives.

If you are initially packing them into the Eastern Cities (like the Germans and Irish) you'll get less of that, but earlier tenements and a stronger French flair to nomenclature and ethnicity. American English would have a fair few more words borrowed from French. Maybe Mardi Gras would be a national festival like St Patrick's and Cinco Dr Mayo?

 

[Gabingston]

What about St Louis Missouri as a possible place for the French to settle?

I still think that the main destination for French immigrants to North America would have been Quebec (if the British don't ban or restrict French immigration to Canada).

 

[Homer Simpson & the Brain]

I think you could trigger a larger French diaspora to North America if you had the British adopt from the start a colonial management model that avoided the biggest pitfalls that caused the American Revolution, besides being far more tolerant of first hour settlers in colonies they took over from another country. Without the American Revolution, France would be simply going through a period of economic depression brought on by fighting and losing the Seven Years War, rather than being plunged into the pit of bankruptcy it fell into after financing the American rebels, thus the French Revolution would both happen later than in OTL and simply turn France into a constitutional monarchy based on the British model. In this scenario, for a good chunk of the period between the 1750s and the 1850s, it's not unlikely that British North America would have become the choice destination to emigrate to for a sizable percentage of the French population.

P.S. Just curious, what are the odds of some of the British elite looking at this turn of events and comparing it to an overtime victory in the Hundred Years War?

 

[Sirdragon]

Does France even have enough surplus population growth in 19th century?

 

[Deleted member 114175]

Does France even have enough surplus population growth in 19th century?

No, but if France had kept primogeniture through the 19th century like Britain and Germany, they would have had much higher population growth. Napoleon probably could have easily re-established primogeniture as a decree at some point.