That is unfortunately true, infact India centered timelines and discussions are rare
And yes, either of the two families move to India in order to establish their supremacy
That is unfortunately true, infact India centered timelines and discussions are rareThe main problem is without more info the scenario could be anything, there billions of variables and scenarios, we need a full fledge timeline to see it.
For me I can see a ' ummayds or Abbasids' caliphate of Indi/India once either one loss power
Yeah too much Brits or anglophile us citizen always keep their nation strong and that ail others TL a lot.That is unfortunately true, infact India centered timelines and discussions are rare
And yes, either of the two families move to India in order to establish their supremacy
Yes, The timelime is fun, but the most fun would be the new Indo Islamic Culture and how the religion develops with itThat is a good start, either one got India.but when and how are the fun details
If we don't know how the country develop, the culture is impossible to happen, the goverment/leadership will be the one to be nation pacemakers and that derivated everything, specially culture, the nation itself without knowing what kind of nation is(caliphate, sultanate, empire,etc) is impossible to know, we're throwing dark to the dark when blindfold them, means nothing.Yes, The timelime is fun, but the most fun would be the new Indo Islamic Culture and how the religion develops with it
That is true, The government, whichever one is ruling it, would need to make some level of compromise with the natives to rise and hold onto power, but whoever is in power, India definitely has the potential to be the new center of Islamic power,If we don't know how the country develop, the culture is impossible to happen, the goverment/leadership will be the one to be nation pacemakers and that derivated everything, specially culture, the nation itself without knowing what kind of nation is(caliphate, sultanate, empire,etc) is impossible to know, we're throwing dark to the dark when blindfold them, means nothing.
So we need to make a line how we think things could happen, them i can give some ideas how the countries would develop, a Ummayad lead vs an Abassadi leads vs a nativist one all are far different animals from each others
Yeah and who are the goverment determined a lot of things at the beginning, the rest how evolved the other remainder islamic states and or caliphates. If Anything they could be rival for Iranian/central asia supremacy.That is true, The government, whichever one is ruling it, would need to make some level of compromise with the natives to rise and hold onto power, but whoever is in power, India definitely has the potential to be the new center of Islamic power,
Forget rivalry, they would dominate central asia and even Iran through religion, India has a massive population, even a fraction of that being Islamic allows for complete dominance of religion, especially if its of native variant, India might become the new pillar of Islam over IranYeah and who are the goverment determined a lot of things at the beginning, the rest how evolved the other remainder islamic states and or caliphates. If Anything they could be rival for Iranian/central asia supremacy.
Yeah but the one in MENA would not be happy not stay quiet in the religious-political struggle, but yeah long term we would see islam evolving uniquely based on the Indian Subcontinent and spreading in their influence area(Iran,central asia, indian ocean) to compete the MENA and Andalusian Islam...if anything turks and mongols would get screwed as they might face real enemies nowForget rivalry, they would dominate central asia and even Iran through religion, India has a massive population, even a fraction of that being Islamic allows for complete dominance of religion, especially if its of native variant, India might become the new pillar of Islam over Iran
Yes, India would be a force to reckon with in Islamic political though, and it is no reason to not assume that there would be an attempt made by the new Indian Sultanate, where the caliph resides to launch naval attacks to control Mecca and Madina in order to have religious legitimacyYeah but the one in MENA would not be happy not stay quiet in the religious-political struggle, but yeah long term we would see islam evolving uniquely based on the Indian Subcontinent and spreading in their influence area(Iran,central asia, indian ocean) to compete the MENA and Andalusian Islam...if anything turks and mongols would get screwed as they might face real enemies now
That is a very future event and one with Indian having a very big and well seasoned navy, as they need to navigate the red sea up to Al-Ḥijāz and Jedda...and keep it, but yeah whatever control the region, losing like this would be a massive blow but that is advancing too much in the future, but feasible...like 200-300 year an independant Sultanate/Caliphate of india.Yes, India would be a force to reckon with in Islamic political though, and it is no reason to not assume that there would be an attempt made by the new Indian Sultanate, where the caliph resides to launch naval attacks to control Mecca and Madina in order to have religious legitimacy
India has a good naval traditions, Cholas in Tamil Nadu were the able to navigate till Philippines, A United India would have a really powerful navyThat is a very future event and one with Indian having a very big and well seasoned navy, as they need to navigate the red sea up to Al-Ḥijāz and Jedda...and keep it, but yeah whatever control the region, losing like this would be a massive blow but that is advancing too much in the future, but feasible...like 200-300 year an independant Sultanate/Caliphate of india.
Yeah meaning their influences would be the SEA region very easily...they make their new caliphate in Nusantara,Malasya and others? that would be big, they would Islamized the phillipines early and completely too...India has a good naval traditions, Cholas in Tamil Nadu were the able to navigate till Philippines, A United India would have a really powerful navy
Yes, Cholas were an Hindu Tamil dynasty who were able to exert their influence till the southern tip of Philippines, and United Islamic India could do the same for all of Indian ocean, from Aden to Malacca, and perhaps even stumble upon Madagascar and Australia and colonize it, you could even have a scenario where Indian sultanate participate in Crusades through their navyYeah meaning their influences would be the SEA region very easily...they make their new caliphate in Nusantara,Malasya and others? that would be big, they would Islamized the phillipines early and completely too...
Butterflies, there would not be crusades at all. Still if an islamic indian can organize and exert that power, the possibilities are endless, as you mentioned Madagascar and Australia would be just the beginyou could even have a scenario where Indian sultanate participate in Crusades through their navy
Yes, India is in a prime location to dominate Indian Ocean, and Indian traders did in OTL, which is why it is named after India, but India was not able to dominate politically due to never being united, it can change in TTLButterflies, there would not be crusades at all. Still if an islamic indian can organize and exert that power, the possibilities are endless, as you mentioned Madagascar and Australia would be just the begin
Thanks for thinking of me. I thought about trying to think of something I could add but in all honesty the changes are so fundamental, I could say anything I wanted at all reallyMay be it will disturb him write the great TL,but I still want invite @Madhav Deval for this discussion
When is India most likely to convert under Islam, I'd say under Islamic conquest by Arabs or continued Mughal Empire under people like Dara ShikohThanks for thinking of me. I thought about trying to think of something I could add but in all honesty the changes are so fundamental, I could say anything I wanted at all really
Personally I don't think the Umayyads had anything like the capability to press into India beyond, if they're lucky, Gujarat and the western Thar desert. Even otl they were very overstretched, and simply didn't have the resources to wage large campaigns at the edge of empire when they have much more enticing targets and pressing concerns with Rome and Europe. Pressing for control over india means abandoning Iberia and the Maghreb, and I don't think that's a trade the Umayyads will risk given the uncertainty of success.
I also don't think that in the event of an earlier Muslim state establishing itself in the subcontinent it would have significantly better luck converting people than the Turkic sultanates a few hundred years later. Sure you might get perhaps 50 percent muslim over a thousand years instead of 30 percent as otl, but more than that seems unlikely, and it would still be in the more marginal areas where there wasn't really any established Hindu institution. I don't think a hypothetical stronger Muslim demographic would make the subcontinent tend more towards unification, or lead to the end of the caste system, which was incredibly resilient.
What I will say though, is that even disregarding all these issues with plausibility, I think it's incredibly difficult to speculate on an Islam which draws so heavily on Indian traditions from the get go. The Islamic schools of law would be radically altered, and it's also incredibly unlikely that early Sufi metaphysics develop in the same way. At this point, Sanskrit is still going very strong as a language of the elite and isn't as vulnerable to replacement as it was by Persian in the later middle ages.
With Deval comment we would need to wait Abasadid as that means less committennts in Iberia and NA, if not the Mughals them but that is harderWhen is India most likely to convert under Islam, I'd say under Islamic conquest by Arabs or continued Mughal Empire under people like Dara Shikoh
Under Mughals, Deval's own timeline of Mughal empire could be a model for the Islamic India, and Abbasids India could also be fascinatingWith Deval comment we would need to wait Abasadid as that means less committennts in Iberia and NA, if not the Mughals them but that is harder