Effects of early independence for Cuba

samcster94

Banned
In OTL, Cuba only got independence in 1898 and PR not at all. What if that happened by 1830??? I know loyalists went to the islands in OTL, but there were people who wanted independence though.
 
In OTL, Cuba only got independence in 1898 and PR not at all. What if that happened by 1830??? I know loyalists went to the islands in OTL, but there were people who wanted independence though.
Umm got independence during that, full without nobody meddling? besides showing spain growing even weaker that ever wonder how that might affect puerto rico and philippines....the rest Cuban Economy will be the traditional of the time, based on Slavery(unless abolished since the independance) till x years and later peonage/rancheria with Tobacco and Sugar as king..that will be interesting repercusion in a lot of countries...
 
A partial reason for delayed independence was that the Cuban landowning elite had fears if they became an independent nation, they would not have the numbers to provide counter-resistance to a potential slave uprising. Spain's presence on the island was essential for the preservation of slavery. Now if the Spanish had decided to crack down on slavery, forcing the landowners to take a chance and declare independence, or if the threat of a slave uprising was minimized to the point that the Spanish military presence would no longer be considered necessary but a burden on the Cuban, there's a chance.
 

Deleted member 9338

A Cuba independent in the 1830 will quickly be added to the US
 

Deleted member 9338

The why is easy, the US was looking for prime real estate when the war with Mexico occurred. There will be a change on Manifest Destiny to include The Carribean. Good news the MLB will end up with two good teams in Havana and Santiago
 
The why is easy, the US was looking for prime real estate when the war with Mexico occurred. There will be a change on Manifest Destiny to include The Carribean. Good news the MLB will end up with two good teams in Havana and Santiago

Ah, and Santiago's hometown hero Fidel Castro is elected to Cooperstown as one of the defining baseball players of the 50s. It's still debated whether Castro's younger brother Raúl likewise belongs there.
 
I don't think it's a given that US would take it over. it would have added to the slavery conflict. plus, US historically looked west for expansion. and Cuba was catholic. in Mexico, they shied away from taking areas that were highly populated with catholics

it probably butterflies T Roosevelt rising to power.
 
Ah, and Santiago's hometown hero Fidel Castro is elected to Cooperstown as one of the defining baseball players of the 50s. It's still debated whether Castro's younger brother Raúl likewise belongs there.

Supposedly Castro wasn't that much of a player, but given his ability to inspire, I see him as a career minor-leaguer who makes it bigger as a manager. His brother would naturally be his trusted third-base coach and probably hold some other position on Fidel's staff.

As for Cuba as part of the US...keep in mind that probably happens pre-Civil War, so the slavery divide is huge. I wonder if this averts or delays the Civil War, given that the Compromise of 1850 crapped up the balance between slave and free states when California was admitted as a free state and there was no state to admit to balance the numbers a la the Missouri Compromise. In this case, if California is admitted as a free state, Cuba being admitted as a slave state may balance things out a bit and make the Fugitive Slave Act unnecessary or not as forceful (it looked like a scrap tossed to the South because it lost the California decision, and the Sout largely felt the Compromise of 1850 was a "the hell with you, South" decision.)

I think the division was too stark between the two sides to avert the Civil War altogether even if Cuba becomes a slave state, but one has to wonder if Spain doesn't get tossed into the mix of nations that could help the South, thereby giving them a shot at independence.
 
Teddy Roosevelt coudl win election somewhere else, though - maybe an earlier election to mayor of New York City before he is Governor in the 1890s? Or, maybe he stays out West and moves to California, becoming TTL's Hiram Johnson a bit early.

If Cuba revolts, it's hard to see it not being with outside help. However, there were some who wanted it in the 1810s, and if Spain is still allied with France the British could try to support it. Or, a United States that has more staes moving toward compensated emancipation might see rich slaveholders moving in to help the Cubans revolt in exchange for being give spots in the government and freedom to bring their slaves free from worries about having to give them up. While Cuba would be filled with Catholics, politics does make strange bedfellows at times, and it might mean that Catholicism is not the state religion with perhaps other compromises, too. And, the US just looking the other way becasue of concerns elsewhere. (Or because the President thinks, "Wait, why should we stop them, this is getting rid of the problem of the most vociferous holdovers and making compensated emancipation easier.")
 
Supposedly Castro wasn't that much of a player, but given his ability to inspire, I see him as a career minor-leaguer who makes it bigger as a manager. His brother would naturally be his trusted third-base coach and probably hold some other position on Fidel's staff.

More than likely, but it's fun to imagine Fidel Castro being one of America's heroes on the baseball field rather than America's biggest enemy. And Raúl needs to play a part too.

As for Cuba as part of the US...keep in mind that probably happens pre-Civil War, so the slavery divide is huge. I wonder if this averts or delays the Civil War, given that the Compromise of 1850 crapped up the balance between slave and free states when California was admitted as a free state and there was no state to admit to balance the numbers a la the Missouri Compromise. In this case, if California is admitted as a free state, Cuba being admitted as a slave state may balance things out a bit and make the Fugitive Slave Act unnecessary or not as forceful (it looked like a scrap tossed to the South because it lost the California decision, and the Sout largely felt the Compromise of 1850 was a "the hell with you, South" decision.)

I think the division was too stark between the two sides to avert the Civil War altogether even if Cuba becomes a slave state, but one has to wonder if Spain doesn't get tossed into the mix of nations that could help the South, thereby giving them a shot at independence.

We're obviously changing 19th century Spain by denying them one of their last major colonies. Does the Dominican Republic still rejoin Spain for those few years, and is Spain able to support the pro-Spanish forces and quash the Dominican Restoration War? I mean, it's quite an issue if the Dominican Republic gets admitted as a slave state too. Can't forget Puerto Rico either.

Spain was a mess in the 1860s, but I suppose the CSA needed every bit of help they could get, even if it definitely isn't in Spain's best interest to poke their nose in that affair.
 
A Cuba independent in the 1830 will quickly be added to the US
How and Why?

Yea I'm a bit doubtful as well. They'll share slavery but I don't think much of the US will want to bring that many Catholics into the Union, even as a slave state. The US in 1830 was 13 million while Cuba was 1 million. As a single state Cuba would be third or fourth in number of representatives and splitting it only gives them more senators.
 
Yea I'm a bit doubtful as well. They'll share slavery but I don't think much of the US will want to bring that many Catholics into the Union, even as a slave state. The US in 1830 was 13 million while Cuba was 1 million. As a single state Cuba would be third or fourth in number of representatives and splitting it only gives them more senators.

The thought I have is this - a slave revolt leads to independence, and slaves in the South start escaping to Cuba. The US, as a way of placating the South, annexes Cuba (giving the South a lot more than the Compromise of 1850 did) and declares it a slave territory and open season on enslaving the locals. That is one way the US would be interested in Cuba; as for how, well, if it's independent, it's really no trouble.
 
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