Effects of capturing a battleship in combat

Not that it would ever lead to actual capture of an enemy ship, but I wonder if it was possible in some really desperate situation (e.g. HMS Glowworm vs. Hipper) for a ship to ram the bigger opponent and with some luck allow an ad hoc assault team to enter it. Even a few armed individuals could cause major disruption in such case, but this has probably not happened after 1900.
 
How long was Bismark able to communicate with the outside world after KGV and Rodney started firing?
 
The modern version of Admiral Lord Hawke? ( “You have done your duty in this remonstrance. Now obey my order and lay me alongside the French admiral")
 
Hiow about a British Battleship caught in port in Singapore?

Assuming it's intact, the japanese could use it... untill they ran out of ammo for it, or something broke down and they didn't have spares. Meanwhile, they'll strip it's more sensitive systems: fire control, comms, possibly a radar, any paperwork left behind...

Could they rebuild/chance it's equipment to become compatible? Sure. Is it worth it?...
 
The USS Hornet was almost captured by the Japanese after attempts to sink it by U.S. Destroyers was unsuccessful ( 9 torpedoes some of which failed to explode and over 400 5" rounds) it was finally finished off with 4 Long Lance torpedoes by Japanese destroyers. That was the closest a 'modern' major naval ship has come to being captured that I know of.

IIRC there was some thought about towing her back to Japan. But the Japanese had no tugs, the distance was too great and the damage too severe. The IJN choose to sink her to make sure the USN couldn't salvage her later...
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Can we include other major warships other than battleships in post ww2 era ? As there are hardly any BB around
 
Doubt it. Remember the very poor air cover the RN had at this time; and it's AAA was far from being the top notch it would become latter on.

You mean that poor aircover that crushed the Luftwaffe during the battle of Britain? That what the Luftwaffe has to get thru as the Prize Bismarck is being towed back to UK waters

And it's the middle of nowhere, how good is the KM with sending locations of RN surface units to the LW?
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It will take six hours of flight time for Condors to reach the area, and that's with reduced bombload.

Only U-74 was close enough to get some survivors after the RN headed home after the 27th.
With the Bismarck as a Prize, U-47 would have to run on the surface to have enough speed to reach the area in time, but she was low of fuel, and U-556 was out of torpedoes, the other too far away.
 
You mean that poor aircover that crushed the Luftwaffe during the battle of Britain? That what the Luftwaffe has to get thru as the Prize Bismarck is being towed back to UK waters

Afaik, the Bismarck was sunk too far from the UK for land based-air cover to help. As for comunicating presence, the Bismarck last report would have been enough. Considering how long it would take for the RN to send sailors about, stop the flooding, set up tow lines and actually begin towing, there would be plenty of time for either U-boat reports, or a Condor or 2 to arrive and begin marking the position.
 
IIRC there was some thought about towing her back to Japan. But the Japanese had no tugs, the distance was too great and the damage too severe. The IJN choose to sink her to make sure the USN couldn't salvage her later...

I don't think they boarded her but decided to sink her when they encountered her. I do not know any more details.
 
Doubt it. Remember the very poor air cover the RN had at this time; and it's AAA was far from being the top notch it would become latter on.

Yes & I'm also remembering how weak the Luftwaffe was at maritime bombing at that time. They had a capable but small group. More to the moment getting significant number to the critical location on very short notice would be problematic. Even getting a hasty reconissance effort aloft would have been a challenge. Encountering one or two submarines will be the greater danger. A slow moving tow leaves the hulk & tug vulnerable to a torpedo attack.

How long was Bismark able to communicate with the outside world after KGV and Rodney started firing?

IIRC the last message went out as the first shots landed. I cant recall from the survivor accounts if the radios were destroyed early on or survived a while.
 
The Bombardment of the Hartlepools might be a option. If the German ships come in too close the water gets very shallow (The dredged channel into the port was only 20ft deep), if the tide's wrong a ship could easily ground on the rocks. Plenty have on the Longscar rocks over the years.

I was thinking of the Bombardment myself, although the scenario in my head was that the Royal Navy vessels present did a better job of fighting back than they did on OTL and one of the German ships got a torpedo to a propeller.

Your scenario is funnier though.

Now that would be a tadd embarrassing....

What happened in OTL was embarrassing, just for the British. The Germans suffering their own share of indignity would just even things out.

Something else that would make the situation embarrassing for the Germans and amusing for the Brits; IIRC the highest ranked RN vessel present at the time was the scout cruiser HMS Patrol, who got pretty bashed up in OTL and may or may not have been in TTL, with second place going to HMS Forward, another scout cruiser, and the other vessels being four dinky little 550 ton DDs and an even dinkier submarine. So whichever battlecruiser lands themselves in bother is going to have to surrender to a ship that's a tiny fraction of their size and has an even smaller fraction of their armament. The British press would probably have a field day.

It was a foggy morning. Looking back a hundred years it would be incredibly funny and might finally kill off that damn monkey hanging story.

I doubt it. The monkey hanging story is one of those things that will probably never die.

On another note, would there be much in the way of compatibility issues between German and RN vessels of that era? After all, it'd be better in both practical terms and in terms of propaganda and general rubbing it in if the British could actually use whichever ship they'd bagged.
 

Nick P

Donor
I think the last ship to be surrendered by the Royal Navy was HMS Campbeltown. That was a big surprise for the Germans.
 
Scuttling has little effect if the ship is grounded and can be refloated after capture.
Grounded ships might be damaged by high explosives. But do battleships always have ammunition supplies to spend on wrecking the ship, or do they ever fight to the last shot meaning they are out of ammunition to blow themselves up?
 
I think the last ship to be surrendered by the Royal Navy was HMS Campbeltown. ...

A nitpick, the Campbeltown was not surrendered. The Germans boarded & took it by force of arms. Good show those Jerrys

... HMS Campbeltown. That was a big surprise for the Germans.

They certainly weren't expecting such a big magazine, nor the size of the ordnance aboard. No wonder the Tirpitz spent the remainder of the war skulking in Norwegian fijords.
 
I don't think they boarded her but decided to sink her when they encountered her. I do not know any more details.

No, they couldn't board her as she was completely on fire. Even if a tug had been available getting tow ropes on her would have just about impossible. As the USN would be back it was quickly decided to sink her to make sure if they couldn't have her no one would.
 
The painting of a pummeled and battered Bismarck being towed into Portsmouth replaces this as the UK most favorite naval painting

But who would paint it? Turner, of course, died (if irc) 1851 and it is going to have to be a bloody good painting to improve on The Fighting Temeraire

( i do also like Rain, Steam and Speed also by Turner)

How about capturing it in port?

Aha a cutting out expedition!
 
Turning around the question for our military experts: suppose you have a commando of about a 100 Marines, paratroopers or commandos trained in boarding operations and you somehow have the means to land them on the deck of a military vessel. Let's say by dropping them from stealth helicopters or radar-jamming speedboats. What would be the biggest ship they could overpower? And could they realistically hope to sail it to their own fleet or would theirs just be a slash and grab mission of fetching everything that looks interesting and then blowing up the ship behind them?

Like I said, I have zero knowledge on that part starting with the most obvious question of how many men there are on a frigate versus an aircraft carrier. All I know is that in one of the comics I read in the 1980's, US Navy hotshot pilot Buck Danny with one sidekick once took over a complete Cuban frigate at least long enough to call a US helicopter to come and airlift him off to Guantanamo. (In 1980 that didn't yet have that cynical aftertaste.) Of course that was a comic book fantasy typical of it's time. 25 years later Bruce Willis would probably have taken over a nuclear submarine all by himself and another 10 years on a whole aircraft carrier with a little help from Silvester Stallone and Jet Li... But I digress....
in the USN, battleships historically had their own attached Marines, who would man weapons or otherwise occupy battle stations during combat. In addition to being helpful during potential mutinies, they combined with the 1,000 or so crew, make successfully boarding a capital ship difficult in the extreme.
 
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