I realize that it is wrong to just soley blame Sparta for all the bad stuff, I just think that bad stuff is less likely to happen if Sparta loses and Athens wins.
No worries, no judgements here.
Couldn't agree more. After the Peloponnesian War, there would have to be drastic reforms. I was thinking that after Sparta is defeated, her allies would be forced to join the Delian League.
This may not be as simple as you might think. The Delian League was fighting the Peloponessean League under the premise of liberating the Greeks from Sparta. If say the people of Elis, Arcadia, Achaea, or Messina decide to form their own League, that entire political discussion has to happen again.
Elis also raises an interesting question - Who does Athens or the Delian League consider Greek? This matters - Stratonicus of Athens certainly considered them the worst barbarians, worse than the Thessalians or Boetians. (yes, some people considered Thebes a barbarian city).
Regarding this then, there is fundamentally three approaches to any conquest by the League, at least as far as ethnicity is considered.
1) Enslavement as Labour - Great for free labour, but there are political ramificiations here "How are we better than Sparta?" Especially if the idea of how "Greek" Elis is still up for debate.
2) Enslavement as Soldiery - Forcing them into troops is a possibility, but then the question remains, who do they serve? The League? Or the city states they are nearby? You'd also want to keep them away from their homeland (which could be difficult strategically if you need to bring them to defend the City of Elis)
3) Citizenship - Fine if they are Greek (still a political question there inevitably, moreso as the League expands). The other political problem is that expansion (as I stated before) reduces the political power of each individual state as part of the League. This could lead to city states insisting that the Macedonians are Barbarians, or that the Boetians are too.
So if we assume success (which I don't think is unreasonable), the question to ask is "What is Greek?" That will be just as much a pattern for their conquests as anything else. If the League is particularly xenophobic, it could rapidly over-enslave, and become a slavocratic society - again, who says that is better than Sparta?
After that, the Delian League would become the official name for a large Greek confederation/empire. I was thinking that each city state would have a single representative in a senate based out of Athens. This senate would then vote for five of its members (most likely five most powerful city states) to be on an executive council. Each city state will have complete sovereignty over itself except in matters of foreign policy, which the executive council will have control over. Each city state would also have to provide a certain amount of soldiers/ships that would be stationed at ports and fortresses throughout the confederation.
I can see many murders of The Big 5 in the future. That number may need to expand with time - if say the Asian Greeks don't have any representative, despite being overall the wealthiest, they'll be infuriated, even if the 5 richest states are in Attica. The Big 5 may work better as the arbitrators of power - defining how certain regions should work together. (i.e. Africa, you have the agreement from the League to create a joint council to govern African actions, primarily defensive actions, or local conflict resolution). Very flexible, and varied rules per region, but it prevents alienation from being a problem.
When it comes to expanding, the confederation must go to war as a whole. No single city state will be allowed to fight someone without the approval of the senate (unless it is in self defense). When a confederation army conquers new land, the existing inhabitants would probably be sold into slavery. the then vacant city would be colonized by Greek settlers (these settlers will be allowed to come from any preexisting city state). After ten years or so of being ruled by the senate, the colony would transition into becoming its own city state and would elect its own leader.
City states would not be allowed to fight each other. All conflicts must be addressed in a confederation court. And to prevent rivalries from turning into conflict, city state's will compete with each other economically or in the Olympics instead of on the battlefield.
If the Delian League can become something like this, I feel that it could slowly expand and truly become a powerful empire. Also with a five person executive council, Alexander the Great or his father could technically get elected to it (this would require Macedon joining the Delian League. I don't know if this would be possible, iv'e been doing some reading but I not entirely sure if Macedonians were excepted as Greeks or not.) and would be able to rule beside Athenian leadership.
I generally agree with this - I think it could expand, but it wouldn't be an Empire as we've ever seen. You'd have the interesting result of a "demographic frontier", where you see the Greek Core expand into the "Frontier", which would be far less Greek, and more redistributed slaves.
I think Macedonia may be the most interesting conundrum. Large, (if butterflies permit) militarily flexible and skillful, but with a common identity - Macedonian, rather than Athenian, if accepted as Greek, they'll make a powerful voting block - they simply will, the King of Pella, or Argeas will fundamentally be recognised as their leader - and dictate huge numbers of votes. If conquered piecemeal? A large, very angry, militarily talented Kingdom wants its land back. The difficulties will come from the strength and unity of the Macedonians, who are already used to jointly choosing their Kings.
After that, you have the Thracians - who threaten the Black Sea food supply for Athens, and again, have a distinct identity from Athens - they may be the first huge influx of Barbarians for even a flexible League.
But yeah - I love the idea and would love to read a timeline based on this - but the reality is that to grow, it will need to institute a flexible structure of governance, to accomodate the difficulties of logistics, communications, and cultural differences.
Also, I'll put my name down for Arbiter of the African Quorum, Lord of Karkhēdōn (Carthage).
