Effects of a majority-Black state in the US south

WI: The African-American majority in one southern US state, soon after the end of the ACW, actually manages to seize AND KEEP power?

They fill the State National Guard with loyal Blacks, create various state-sponsored militias all over the place, design the electoral system to entrench their power and consistently and violently stamp down on the KKK and white racists.
 
how much 'white flight' are we liable to see in this state? would African-Americans in neighboring states be more likely to move there as opposed to the north, should white residents start leaving the state? Would we likely see low-level violence along state borders, once federal troops eventually leave the south and the Democrats are back in power?
 
Would an armed white invasion by either the neighboring state government or civilians be likely be possible ?
 
The two most likely states I can see this happening in are Mississippi and South Carolina both of which according to the 1860 census had over half their populations as slaves. I’m not sure how it would happen though.
 
Would an armed white invasion by either the neighboring state government or civilians be likely be possible ?
I would suspect it would be tried at some point. After the initial border skirmishes the whites in the neighboring states would likely wait until a sympathetic administration is in power in Washington and then make an attempt. A lot more details of the scenario need to be fleshed out to determine how successful they'd be.
 
I am not sure that this would be possible, given the human geography of the South. Perhaps if state borders were drawn differently, perhaps redrawn after the Civil War?
 
I would suspect it would be tried at some point. After the initial border skirmishes the whites in the neighboring states would likely wait until a sympathetic administration is in power in Washington and then make an attempt. A lot more details of the scenario need to be fleshed out to determine how successful they'd be.
As of the 1860 census Mississippi had 436,631 slaves out of a population of 791,305 or around 55% enslaved not counting free blacks.

South Carolina had a slave population of 402,406 out of a population of 703,708 or around 57%.

Assuming that by the end of reconstruction any whites not ok with the status quo have fled the two states and former slaves have moved in from neighboring southern states to take their place then they should have enough people to assemble a decent sized army to defend themselves. This is of course not accounting for any casualties in the civil war.
 
As of the 1860 census Mississippi had 436,631 slaves out of a population of 791,305 or around 55% enslaved not counting free blacks.

South Carolina had a slave population of 402,406 out of a population of 703,708 or around 57%.

Assuming that by the end of reconstruction any whites not ok with the status quo have fled the two states and former slaves have moved in from neighboring southern states to take their place then they should have enough people to assemble a decent sized army to defend themselves. This is of course not accounting for any casualties in the civil war.
I don't doubt their ability to draw a militia from the population. Some open questions are going to be:
-How well will they be armed? It's possible arms manufacturers would not want to do business with them.
-How well will their neighbors be armed? It's possible arms manufacturers might provide active support to their neighbors. It's possible the federal government might covertly or overtly support/restrain their neighbors.
-What is the federal presence in the state going to look like at that point?
-What will the federal reaction be? I mentioned waiting for a sympathetic administration, but the degree of sympathy could vary and could be misread.
 
Wasn't there a whole lot of war surplus equipment in the aftermath of the ACW? Plus, I assume S. Carolina could also import firearms from abroad if necessary
 
Wasn't there a whole lot of war surplus equipment in the aftermath of the ACW? Plus, I assume S. Carolina could also import firearms from abroad if necessary
There was tons, controlled by the federal government. A policy (official or not) of preferentially selling it could easily come into play.
 
I don't doubt their ability to draw a militia from the population. Some open questions are going to be:
-How well will they be armed? It's possible arms manufacturers would not want to do business with them.
-How well will their neighbors be armed? It's possible arms manufacturers might provide active support to their neighbors. It's possible the federal government might covertly or overtly support/restrain their neighbors.
-What is the federal presence in the state going to look like at that point?
-What will the federal reaction be? I mentioned waiting for a sympathetic administration, but the degree of sympathy could vary and could be misread.
I assume both are armed with surplus civil war equipment that was floating around at the end of the civil war.

As for getting arms if no one wants to arm the slave state both Mississippi and South Carolina have ports in the form of Biloxi and Charleston that they can smuggle war material into the state from contraband/private salesman.

Also I think the southern states would be to wrecked by the civil war to really afford to purchase weapons from abroad. And the Federal government would probably look very unfavorably on southern states purchasing more arms than they need to equip their state militia

I’m also just guessing that the Freed slave government in charge of Mississippi/South Carolina would welcome Federal presence I. Their state as a form of protection against rebellious whites and their neighboring states. So I'm guessing the federal presence in the state would be larger than in neighboring southern states.
As for Federal response I think it depends on the president’s beliefs. Are we dealing with an early Woodrow Wilson or someone like Grant
 
Would an armed white invasion by either the neighboring state government or civilians be likely be possible ?
I don't think so. The federal government is never, ever going to sit back while one state invades another, because once that precedent is set the country's on a sure path to anarchy. Even a President who generally isn't at all sympathetic towards black people would come down hard on any attempts at inter-state warfare.
 
That would definitely be impressive. If the population got control over their own local government, instead of being dominated by a rich white class (like many black majority counties in the Mississippi Valley and the Deep South), then it would be a true sight to behold. White Flight would be massive though, even if whites realized that their fear of servile insurrection would never happen, they would still leave their own homes than be dominated by a black government.

And as for the state itself, whether or not it would prosper is up in the air. The Federal Government might help it some more, and it could break the deadlock in the EC during Hayes's election. If that's the case we could see an extended Reconstruction, and this would definitely secure this new black state's position. The Federal Government would definitely be glad to help this new Government stay in place, and they would definitely be willing to arm and train the state's National Guard. It would be a major ally throughout Reconstruction and the only Republican bastion in the Deep South, crucial for swinging elections. State elections could also be easily rigged to support the incumbent government, with former Confederate Vets or whites who "supported the Rebellious Government" losing their right to vote under state law, like some form of felony disenfranchisement.

I must say the state would definitely be a pariah in the region, as neighboring white states would fight tooth and nail to keep their neighbor down, or at the very least attempt to portray it as bad so that their own African population doesn't get the idea to take the reigns of their own Government. Though this could be changed by a longer Reconstruction.
 
I don't think so. The federal government is never, ever going to sit back while one state invades another, because once that precedent is set the country's on a sure path to anarchy. Even a President who generally isn't at all sympathetic towards black people would come down hard on any attempts at inter-state warfare.
Like the way Presidents Pierce and Buchanan cracked down on the Border Ruffian invasions of Kansas? That is to say, not at all.
 
Like the way Presidents Pierce and Buchanan cracked down on the Border Ruffian invasions of Kansas? That is to say, not at all.
There's a difference between notoriously weak Presidents not acting on internal state violence vs the strong Reconstruction Era Federal Govt letting state National Guards mobilize against one another so soon after the Civil War.
 
There's a difference between notoriously weak Presidents not acting on internal state violence vs the strong Reconstruction Era Federal Govt letting state National Guards mobilize against one another so soon after the Civil War.
Also, the previous rounds of violence had culminated in a years-long civil war which left hundreds of thousands dead. Nobody's going to want to follow that precedent again.
 
Assuming that by the end of reconstruction any whites not ok with the status quo have fled the two states and former slaves have moved in from neighboring southern states
This. For black Republicans to keep control of a state through and after OTL Reconstruction, black Southerners have to realize they can hold at most one or two states, and "fort up" there.
...to take their place then they should have enough people to assemble a decent sized army to defend themselves.
But there is a quality problem. Blacks outnumber whites in two states, but they lack leadership and experience. Nearly all of them were slaves a few years before, held in a state of enforced passive dependency, including near-total ignorance and illiteracy. They aren't ready to fight. White Southerners, OTOH, have a cadre of leaders and are notoriously combative. That's why, despite the numerical advantage of the blacks, the whites won the power struggle.

For the blacks to win in a state, the black "elite" (the smartest, most knowledgeable, psychologically toughest) have to concentrate there. And I think that such blacks felt strong ties to their home districts. They were reluctant to abandon the only homes they had ever known for the unknown conditions in some other state. The black Republicans in the receiving states would have to make provisions for the migrants: housing and employment.

It would have to be a consciously directed process, and AFAIK no one even thought of it.

If it did happen, or something like it, and the white South wrote off a state...

That state would become a magnet for restive blacks. Most of the whites would leave. (There would be a small group of upper-class whites, the Carpetbagger/Scalawag allies of the blacks. This group might even presume to run the state until the blacks push them aside.)

Politically, it would be a Republican one-party state and probably seriously corrupt. It would be viewed much as the South was viewed in the Jim Crow era - a nasty mess, but nothing to be done about it by outsiders.

What else? Very likely there would be a KKK cordon on its borders, to insure any uppity negritude didn't leak out.

Culturally... That state would pre-empt the energy which went into OTL's Harlem Renaissance. It would also divert a lot of the pressure for desegregation elsewhere

OTOH: suppose Lincolnian "Reconstruction". In the period immediately after the War, Lincoln actively works to stand up the Republican Party in the South, using federal patronage and reaching out to former Whigs. At the same time, he insists that Southern states enfranchise some blacks. Not all them, which meant a social revolution that whites fought tooth and nail; but enough to get a foot in the door of politics.

With no threat of social upheaval, white Southerners accept improved status for blacks. A few blacks are even elected to "safe" offices, such as one of several seats on the county commission or the school board. There's no KKK or anything like it. Later on, maybe county clerk or even state legislator. Once blacks have filled these positions successfully, the black franchise expands, and the whites accept blacks in more "dangerous" offices.

The Republicans push this, of course, as they are the beneficiaries of black voting. But a generation or two down the road, the Democrats begin competing for black votes, and stop opposing them. (In OTL, Memphis Democrat political boss E. J. Crump began collecting black votes circa 1905.) Many institutions and activities remain segregated, but less than OTL, and more genuinely equal.

By the early 1900s, black political activity is fully unconstrained.

One knock-on from this is that there is no Great Migration of blacks escaping Jim Crow. OTL, the GM shifted Southern demographics, ending the black majorities in Mississippi and South Carolina and expanding white majorities in Georgia, Alabama, and Louisiana. ITTL, those black majorities remain. Louisiana may attract black migrants and flip (it was very close). Florida was very thinly populated then, and about half black. As it develops, it may also attract black migrants and flip (it wouldn't take many).
 
Honestly out of Mississippi and South Carolina Mississippi feels like the more likely state for this to take place. Just because even though it had a smaller population South Carolina in the antebellum and civil war always seemed like it was just more important than Mississippi.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Honestly out of Mississippi and South Carolina Mississippi feels like the more likely state for this to take place. Just because even though it had a smaller population South Carolina in the antebellum and civil war always seemed like it was just more important than Mississippi.
,,,and more important means whites more likely to win there? (South Carolina)

possibly. I could also see the reverse with South Carolina blacks maybe having better prospects than Mississippi because of more free people of color and literate blacks pre ACW, and fewer white people and being *the* southern state most hated by the north.
 
My suggestion for a black-majority southern state would actually be Louisiana, rather than South Carolina or Mississippi. The percentage of enslaved persons in 1860 was nearly 50% (46% if I remember correctly), and New Orleans’s size and wealth more or less demanded a federal presence in the immediate aftermath of the ACW that served as a deterrent to white ethnonationalist revanchism.

The most important element for me, though, is the presence of a free Creole class. This class had a head start on the vast majority of Black Americans in developing generational wealth and social institutions that would serve political ambitions.
 
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