Effect of post-1880 zeppelins on colonisation

Interesting solution... but that does raise the question of why the Zeppelin is really nessicery if you have a railroad or shipping lane heading in that direction anyways. Or is it more of a method for transporting the airship from the point of construction to its airfield of use? (IE. from Europe to the colonies)?
Second option: due to big winds on the high seas and smallish motors, as well as a, by definition, lightweight, I figured it would be easier to get them tethered to boats. They still float, like birthday balloons.
If you don't want to go through the sea but through direct routes, you still need to refuel fairly regularly cause you can only take so much fuel onboard. Zeppelins are good for short-ish (regional) ranges, not intercontinental.
Sure, the Hindenburg but the Hindenburg was MASSIVE and a luxury, like Space tourism these days. Not for day to day military or civilian use

But balloon factories? That would require major textile plants and metalworks to be erected in the colonies to provide the envelope and frame, which somewhat flies in the face of the basic economics if African colonization (They provide raw materials to the motherland, who refines them into finished goods which it can sell at a profit). A situation where the parts are made in Europe than shipped to an airship field for final assembly would better fit the policy of the time. Otherwise, the motherland is just stiffing their domestic industry and laborers
Well, a basic textile industry (no pretty printing, ''just'' bound leather) is a fairly basic industry, and just for military needs, it would be easier to get some repairs workshop going in the country, so you need some leather industry.
If it's for the military campaigns, civilian industry becomes slightly less of a concern, especially if it's not a strategic good (i.e: no secret involved, everybody can stitch a balloon)

Tangential question: did colonial troups ever get shoes from the colonies or were even these basic stuff all imported when they needed spares?
 
Second option: due to big winds on the high seas and smallish motors, as well as a, by definition, lightweight, I figured it would be easier to get them tethered to boats. They still float, like birthday balloons.
If you don't want to go through the sea but through direct routes, you still need to refuel fairly regularly cause you can only take so much fuel onboard. Zeppelins are good for short-ish (regional) ranges, not intercontinental.
Sure, the Hindenburg but the Hindenburg was MASSIVE and a luxury, like Space tourism these days. Not for day to day military or civilian use


Well, a basic textile industry (no pretty printing, ''just'' bound leather) is a fairly basic industry, and just for military needs, it would be easier to get some repairs workshop going in the country, so you need some leather industry.
If it's for the military campaigns, civilian industry becomes slightly less of a concern, especially if it's not a strategic good (i.e: no secret involved, everybody can stitch a balloon)

Tangential question: did colonial troups ever get shoes from the colonies or were even these basic stuff all imported when they needed spares?

The issue is, you can't build a Zeppelin with just bound leather, or at least it wasen't used in our timeline and wouldn't be very effective regardless. Sure, it works for a hot air balloon, but an airship floats by using lighter than air gases, not hot air, and so needs to be pretty airtight. You'd need more advanced textiles with added sealent, such as rubberized/waxed cotton or godbeater's skin (heavily treated cattle intestine) produced on an industrial scale for anything more than very minor patching. Plus, there's the metal frame to consider as Zeppelin's were rigid, not just oversized balloons.

I can't really answer that with certainly, but I'd assume replacement shoes, like replacement uniforms, were bought enmass by the government from private contractors and stockpiled with the rest of their supplies and distributed by a local quartermaster. Thats the general procedure with militaries of the era, though in case by case basises on campaign they may need to improvise. Remember, these are armies in an organized structure with modern industrial economies and governments behind them, who could prepare for things and supply their troops preemptively for routine things such as cloths. Now, if the unit lost their supply lines that's another barrel of beans

Its cheaper to buy in bulk from industrial shoe factories than buy from small artisans on a case by case basis though. Economy of scale and all that
 
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It somewhat depends on where you are in Africa and when you are. Outside of what is now South Africa, the only thing the military could count on from the local economy was food. You could have immigrants from the metropole working in mines and so forth and they or natives trained by them could do things like repairs to machinery, repair rifles, resole shoes & so forth. In terms of more serious amounts of supplies or more complicated items they all had to be imported. Some parts could be made locally but...
 
I agree that to make Zeppelins useful you need internal combustion engines to be much more advanced, that's why said 1914 level engines in my post.
Yes, but we're in the pre-1900 forum, so unless we've got ASB assistance IMO we should stick with that era's engine tech.

A steam engine could be possible, provided the gas in the Zeppelin is not flammable. There were compact engines available during this period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_car#Early_History

Then there are diesel engines into the 1880s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine#Timeline

What about the Stirling engine? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine
 
The only lifting gas available to anyone outside the USA is hydrogen. The helium production in Texas did not begin even on a small scale until WWI, and large scale extraction in the 1920s. Even if you move helium production up to when these Zeppelins are around (1880s) the USA was not selling helium to anyone especially for potential military use. The reason I said WWI level engines was because unless you have better engine technology than what there was in the 1880s the POD won't fly.
 
Yes, but we're in the pre-1900 forum, so unless we've got ASB assistance IMO we should stick with that era's engine tech.



A steam engine could be possible, provided the gas in the Zeppelin is not flammable. There were compact engines available during this period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_car#Early_History

Then there are diesel engines into the 1880s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine#Timeline

What about the Stirling engine? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine

In my humble and admittedly lay analysis

Steam: Not viable due to the weight of the water you'd need to power that many steam engines of sufficient power to properly direct the Zeppelin. Water isn't light.

Diesal Engine: Probably your best bet in the weight to energy department, but a "hot bulb" might be difficult to maintain at high altitudes. A series of powerful internal combustion engines could certainly allow you to steer the craft.

Stirling: Too high of a weight to horsepower ratio. You'd also have to have insulation and heating in the engine chamber in order to maintain the process... which raises the question of how you're making that heat and its weight. Fuel efficient, sure, but not very suitable for flight operations in an open environment.
 
Zeppelins would prove valuable to mapping the African interior because they can take photographs from high altitude. Zeppelins could cruise as high as 10,000 feet (3,000 metres) before needing to provid supplemental oxygen to humans.

Zeppelins would be great for transporting high-value goods (eg. gem stones or gold) to the coast. If Boer miners did not want to pay taxes to Brits, zeppelins could cheerfully smuggle gems from inland mines.

Zeppelins would also prove handy smuggling weapons to rebellious provinces (e.g. Katanga) without port authorities being any wiser.

Similarly if local tribes demanded "protection" money to traverse their lands, Zeppelins found quickly by-pass the most greedy tribes.

Zeppelins would be great at connecting German colonies on opposite coasts (e.g. Tanganika and Namibia).
 
The issue is, you can't build a Zeppelin with just bound leather, or at least it wasen't used in our timeline and wouldn't be very effective regardless. Sure, it works for a hot air balloon, but an airship floats by using lighter than air gases, not hot air, and so needs to be pretty airtight. You'd need more advanced textiles with added sealent, such as rubberized/waxed cotton or godbeater's skin (heavily treated cattle intestine) produced on an industrial scale for anything more than very minor patching. Plus, there's the metal frame to consider as Zeppelin's were rigid, not just oversized balloons.
Had no idea! Thanks for the explanation! Would you have a paper or something on the process? Is it a complex process or something relatively low tech?


It somewhat depends on where you are in Africa and when you are. Outside of what is now South Africa, the only thing the military could count on from the local economy was food. You could have immigrants from the metropole working in mines and so forth and they or natives trained by them could do things like repairs to machinery, repair rifles, resole shoes & so forth. In terms of more serious amounts of supplies or more complicated items they all had to be imported. Some parts could be made locally but...

Let's remember it's not just in Africa, it would also be used in SEA where you already had quite a bit of industry

Zeppelins would also prove handy smuggling weapons to rebellious provinces (e.g. Katanga) without port authorities being any wiser.

Similarly if local tribes demanded "protection" money to traverse their lands, Zeppelins found quickly by-pass the most greedy tribes.

Zeppelins would be great at connecting German colonies on opposite coasts (e.g. Tanganika and Namibia).

The smuggling aspect is a very good point (on which I rely in my novel). The question would be: how high is the frontier? Can a state police its air or is the air common to all (similar to the argument made by the Dutch in the early XVIIth century regarding the sea)?

In that case, it would be hard to stop smuggling: a zeppelin is up in the air, a package falls out in a remote bit, go track that
 
Zeppelins would prove valuable to mapping the African interior because they can take photographs from high altitude. Zeppelins could cruise as high as 10,000 feet (3,000 metres) before needing to provid supplemental oxygen to humans.

Zeppelins would be great for transporting high-value goods (eg. gem stones or gold) to the coast. If Boer miners did not want to pay taxes to Brits, zeppelins could cheerfully smuggle gems from inland mines.

Zeppelins would also prove handy smuggling weapons to rebellious provinces (e.g. Katanga) without port authorities being any wiser.

Similarly if local tribes demanded "protection" money to traverse their lands, Zeppelins found quickly by-pass the most greedy tribes.

Zeppelins would be great at connecting German colonies on opposite coasts (e.g. Tanganika and Namibia).

Mapping: Derek Pullem hit this earlier in the thread; detailed mapping required far more precise measurements and and a usage of reference points you could never achieve from high in the air during this period. Late 19th century photography wasen't exactly the best at such long distances, the location of the Zeppelin isen't exact nor is its distance from landmarks, and at best you could get broad contours of the landscape but not specifics. This is especially true over jungle-heavy areas (Such as, say, large swaths of central Africa where the canopy would obstruct aireal vision.

Smugging Gems; That'd be great if... you know, you still wouldn't be able to get said goods to Europe without a British boat. And that Zeppelin's and their sheds aren't exactly inconspicuous while the Brits are naturally going to eyes near major mining areas. On some small scale, sure, but bulk transport by train is infinantly cheaper per unit. Airships aren't low maintainence craft.

Protection Money: OR, the Europeans would just blast the tribe into submission. This is colonization era Africa we're talking about, where the colonializers had a huge tech, organization, and wealth advantage; who's going to be able to enforce such a Mafia-esqus protection racket and be tolerated?
 
Mapping: Derek Pullem hit this earlier in the thread; detailed mapping required far more precise measurements and and a usage of reference points you could never achieve from high in the air during this period. Late 19th century photography wasen't exactly the best at such long distances, the location of the Zeppelin isen't exact nor is its distance from landmarks, and at best you could get broad contours of the landscape but not specifics. This is especially true over jungle-heavy areas (Such as, say, large swaths of central Africa where the canopy would obstruct aireal vision.
In a military or exploratory effort, knowing where the rivers, villages and mountains are is better than not knowing anything at all :)

Plus, as you said, these heavy jungles are a deathtrap for Europeans. If you can go around them without catching malaria, it's much better!

Smugging Gems; That'd be great if... you know, you still wouldn't be able to get said goods to Europe without a British boat. And that Zeppelin's and their sheds aren't exactly inconspicuous while the Brits are naturally going to eyes near major mining areas. On some small scale, sure, but bulk transport by train is infinantly cheaper per unit. Airships aren't low maintainence craft.
Surely it wasn't just the British who had boats in the XIXth century?
And if you can smuggle two pallets of diamond, I think you're set for quite a while. A lot of goods you'd want to smuggle are very high value, so you don't need that much to turn a profit

Protection Money: OR, the Europeans would just blast the tribe into submission. This is colonization era Africa we're talking about, where the colonializers had a huge tech, organization, and wealth advantage; who's going to be able to enforce such a Mafia-esqus protection racket and be tolerated?
We're not just talking about Africa though, it would also happen in Asia.

Plus, a lot of African polities had weapons, rifles and such. On the other hand, a lot of deep territory European efforts were not that powerful: think hevea and coffee planters near the highlands of Indochina. Meanwhile the few soldiers who are around are busy fighting that other tribe and you're on your own.
 
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