Edward III dies while an infant

So, what if Edward III of England died while young?

Will Edward II still be deposed? Would Prince John claim France if Charles VI dies as OTL?
 
So, what if Edward III of England died while young?

Will Edward II still be deposed? Would Prince John claim France if Charles VI dies as OTL?

Well, if Edward's dead that makes his brother John the heir-apparent. And given Edward II's dreadful record I'm guessing that he still ends up deposed and then dead.
 
I agree that EdII will still likely be deposed.
Would Henry of Grosmont be more successful this time to displace Roger Mortimer?
 
Hmmm, I take it this isn't generating much interest? Too open a question?

It's a bit of a esoteric subject I'm afraid. IIRC Roger Mortimer became the She-Wolfs lover when they were both in exile, so Henry of Grosmont was always going to have a difficult time of it.
 
Hmmm, and yet extra sons of the French Monarchs get hundreds of replies :rolleyes:

Assuming John dies without children as OTL.
That should leave Norfolk (Ed II's half brother), an ally of Mortimer, as King Thomas. However if his son dies childless as OTL. Then if Kent is still attainted we have a succession issue.
 
Edward III has two sisters: Eleanor (born 1318) and Joan (born 1321). With only John standing between them and the succession, they might not marry as they did OTL: the planned double marriage between John and Eleanor with the children of Philippe VI might go ahead instead, bringing the English throne to the French. Either way, Eleanor follows John on the throne.
 
Edward III has two sisters: Eleanor (born 1318) and Joan (born 1321). With only John standing between them and the succession, they might not marry as they did OTL: the planned double marriage between John and Eleanor with the children of Philippe VI might go ahead instead, bringing the English throne to the French. Either way, Eleanor follows John on the throne.

Hmmmm...... not sure I agree with this. An unstable monarchy getting a Queen, doubly so if married to the heir of another country. Think that this will be challenged much as Matilda was earlier.
 
Hmmmm...... not sure I agree with this. An unstable monarchy getting a Queen, doubly so if married to the heir of another country. Think that this will be challenged much as Matilda was earlier.

Indeed. With only John just before them and currently without an heir at least one will likely be married to secure an internal succession if needed, likely to Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk
 
well, no Edward III, means that :


  1. We will see a Mortimer Protectorate
  2. John of Eltham is going to be prince of Wales and future king of England (since EdII will surely be deposed).
  3. If John dies too, we might have an earlier "War of the Roses", since there are cadet branches of the Plantagenet (Lancaster, Kent), if not Kent takes power and "usurp his nieces, just like Lackland usurped power from Arthur of Britanny .
  4. Whomever will take the throne will have to face France, since the Capets will want to take back the last enlgish possessions on the Continent ( Ponthieu, Guyenne, Saintonge ).
  5. It will be difficult for English Barons to accept a women as Queen Regnant. So I agree Derek on this issue
 
well, no Edward III, means that :


  1. We will see a Mortimer Protectorate
  2. John of Eltham is going to be prince of Wales and future king of England (since EdII will surely be deposed).
  3. If John dies too, we might have an earlier "War of the Roses", since there are cadet branches of the Plantagenet (Lancaster, Kent), if not Kent takes power and "usurp his nieces, just like Lackland usurped power from Arthur of Britanny .
  4. Whomever will take the throne will have to face France, since the Capets will want to take back the last enlgish possessions on the Continent ( Ponthieu, Guyenne, Saintonge ).
  5. It will be difficult for English Barons to accept a women as Queen Regnant. So I agree Derek on this issue

Quite succinct except that Norfolk line is senior to the Kent line. I can see one of John's sisters being married off to Norfolk or his heir ala Henry Tudor
 
In 1325 Edward II sent the 12-year-old Prince Edward to France to do homage for Gascony, where he was kept by Isabella, after which Isabella and Mortimer invaded England. I wonder whether a 9-year-old Prince John would have been too young to have been sent to do homage, and if so whether that impacts the Isabella-Mortimer invasion.
 
If Prince Edward dies in France, while under the care of Isabella and Mortimer, how might that change things?

Would they (or the French) be blamed for the death? I'm assuming John was still in England at this time - was he with his father, or somewhere else again?
 
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