Ecological WI re extinct species

Melvin Loh

Just thought I'd shift my AH focus to ecological/environmental matters now- how could species which OTL became extinct have been prevented from being wiped out based on differences in actions by humans affecting their natural ecosystem ?

For starters, species like the
Dodo
Great Auk
Moa
Passenger Pigeon
Tarpan
Quagga
Tassie Tiger/Thylacine
Rhinoceros Bird of Madagascar IIRC

Anybody think of anything else ?
 

zoomar

Probably the easiest to presreve would be the passenger pigeon, which was forced to extinction solely by modern human hunting - an activity which could have been fairly easily curtailed by legal action in the 19th century. Most of the others (I must admit some degree of ignorance as to what a "quagga" actually is) are animals which suffered as much from predation caused by domestic animals introduced into their habitats (dogs, cats, pigs, etc) and competition from more advanced placental mammals introduced by man as by outright hunting. For example, it's hard to imagine how the Maori could have been convinced to settle New Zealand without their pigs and dogs, which are essential parts of their cultures.
 

Jared

Melvin Loh said:
Just thought I'd shift my AH focus to ecological/environmental matters now- how could species which OTL became extinct have been prevented from being wiped out based on differences in actions by humans affecting their natural ecosystem ?

For starters, species like the
Dodo
Great Auk
Moa
Passenger Pigeon
Tarpan
Quagga
Tassie Tiger/Thylacine
Rhinoceros Bird of Madagascar IIRC

Anybody think of anything else ?
Click to expand...

Dodo was eliminated by competition from rats and pigs, apparently - human hunting was trivial (they tasted very bad, according to historical accounts). Keeping out the rats means keeping people from ever landing there, basically - difficult. Keeping out the pigs means keeping people from settling there - also very difficult.

Great auk was hunted to extinction for food, basically. It'd been hunted for centuries, since at least the tenth century IIRC, and stopping people hunting it would be hard. It might be possible for an early conservation movement to take hold and have a relict population survive somewhere - an island off Britain is probably your best bet there.

Moas (there were a dozen or so species of them), unlikely. The big ones were, again, hunted to death for food, and given the scarcity of other good sources of protein in New Zealand, likely to be so hunted by whoever arrives there. Maybe you could have some of the smaller species survive in the more remote areas of New Zealand's South Island - Fiordland would be most likely there.

Passenger pigeon, I don't know much about, but an early conservation movement may again be helpful here. Ditto for the tarpan and the quagga.

The thylacine was more complicated; the evidence suggests that while human hunting played a part, there was also an epidemic which finished off the job (and also drove some related species like the tiger quoll near extinction as well). Handwaving away the epidemic (or making it less severe) may produce surviving thylacines.

The elephant birds of Madagascar are murkier, since we don't have so many records (and I haven't studied the archaelogical evidence), but given human hunting is involved, their chances aren't high if you keep humans on Madagascar. And it's a pretty big island to miss...

Cheers,
Kaiser Wilhelm III
 

Dave Howery

Zoo> the quagga was an extremely common species of zebra that once lived in S. Africa. It was wiped out by human hunting and introduced diseases. I read once that the white settlers there used to go out on the veldt and shoot everything in sight, then pack it all back to the camps. They not only wiped out the quagga, they wiped out an antelope called the blue buck, and nearly wiped out several others....
 

Proctol

Banned
Although man didn't play a part in their extinction, it is believed there were mammoths still around in Sibera 2000 BCE. WI they were domesticatable & herds of tame 5m tall mammoths had been harnessed for food & labour around the world?
 

Mark

I've read (reference at home, probably lost in the files) that the passenger pigeon's lifestyle required large areas of forest due to their method of finding food. Small patches were stripped too clean and couldn't support large flocks. Passenger pigeons were adapted to living in large flocks.

Assuming that's correct, I don't know if they could have survived with large tree plantations or not. I guess it would depend on enough of their food tree(s) being available.

Rats, cats, and dogs are death to island-dwelling, ground dwelling birds (eggs taste too good). To keep them, you need a POD to keep RCDs out.

No ideas about the others.
 

zoomar

Mark said:
I've read (reference at home, probably lost in the files) that the passenger pigeon's lifestyle required large areas of forest due to their method of finding food. Small patches were stripped too clean and couldn't support large flocks. Passenger pigeons were adapted to living in large flocks.

Assuming that's correct, I don't know if they could have survived with large tree plantations or not. I guess it would depend on enough of their food tree(s) being available.

Rats, cats, and dogs are death to island-dwelling, ground dwelling birds (eggs taste too good). To keep them, you need a POD to keep RCDs out.

No ideas about the others.
Click to expand...

That's funny, I'd always thought (and read) that commercial and recreational hunting was the main reason for the Passenger Pigeon's demise. No doubt deforestation played a part too. My uninformed guess, though, is that without the additional pressure of getting popped out of the sky by the thousands, the PP probably could have survived in the reduced forest areas which remained in eastern North America.
 

Mark

General hunting can wipe out a stressed population (extinction if it's the last population of the species), but environmental change (clear-cutting the forests) can cause the stress or allow to little area for the population to survive. By general hunting, I'm not including targeted hunting like the American bison.

I'm reading a history of Michigan's forests and it's amazing the number of species that were exirpated (went locally extinct), even though the hunting pressure wasn't severe. Just cut down every decent tree in sight, leave the cutting to dry, and wonder why you get firestorms. Fortunately, many of the species survived elsewhere (thank you Canada) and have returned since Michigan's forests started coming back.
 

Dave Howery

Introduced diseases shouldn't be forgotten either... they can have a devestating impact on populations. The buffalo is often thought of as having been hunted to near extinction, but introduced cattle diseases killed a lot of them too. Rabies has driven the African wild dog to near extinction, and hoof and mouth disease destroyed whole herds of African herbivores....
 

Mark

Good point David. Also, parasites can impact species. Dutch elm disease, the ash borer, and whatever hit the chesnuts for plants. I just read that Michigan's moose are being infected with a nematode (brought in by white tail deer) that attacks their brains (Holman and Holman, 2003, The Michigan Roadside Naturalist - ha, a reference).
 

DuQuense

The archlogical record shows early tribes in America & Siberia hunting the same things they hunt today. There is very little evidence of Hunting Mammoths, & Masadons. [Flints inside bones, ect] The latest theries is that animal deaseses carred by Mans companion animals, did the trick.

If this is true then to prevent extinctions, whe need a POD, that changes settlement Patterns.
 

Straha

Banned
or cimpyl use butterflies to make the diseases arrive a few millenia before man and his animals do.
 
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