East is West, West is East

Inspired by the East Asian Vikings thread in ASB forum...

How can we realistically make Eastern cultural and political development roughly analogous to what happened in the west in OTL, and vice versa. What needs to change and what would be the closest parallels? And what is the least ASB way of doing it?
 
Justinian restores the Roman Empire, but without Britain. Though the Roman state comes under attack from Avars, Magyars and Arabs, it is able to continue to successfully hold its own, expanding even into Germany. A Great Wall is built across Europe. This revived Roman Empire then goes on to collapse before steppe invaders in the 13th century, before gradually restoring itself, and expanding yet further.

Britain is never reincorporated by Justinian, and develops in isolation, becoming more influenced by Scandinavia alongside Rome, as well as restoring some Celtic traditions. A warrior culture starts to flourish, especially after a Mongol invasion sinks in the Channel, and the islands become ever more independent.

The Tang Dynasty never is able to reunify China, and the various bits and pieces of the Chinese Empire start to drift apart, never to be fully reunited.


Hmmm, that's a start I guess?
 
some thoughts to start

The East had a India / China dualism whereas European culture rested solely on the Greco-Roman World. Although Rome = China is suggested often, I'd rather have them be India because of the heterogeneous nature of the ancient Mediterranean. The Roman Empire can fall apart sooner and basically be like Ashoka's India, known for the patronage of a culture / religion than lasting political rule. Or Maybe a more widespread Hellenic Empire that includes Rome and falls apart as usual, never to recover. What would the Roman equivalent of Buddhism be? Neoplatonism, maybe?

The Celtic World can be China. A unified Celtic empire around the same time as Rome that somehow keeps the Germans confined and becomes more of a trading partner to the various post-Roman states. We can have a Celtic Confucius that provides a philosophy similar to that of OTL China, while Neoplatonism makes inroads. There is no exclusive monotheism and more or less a philosophical system imposed upon existing polytheisms rather than a clean break.

The Germanic tribes can be like Manchus and Koreans, pushed and confined to Scandinavia and often at odds with the Celtic Empire but just as often its tributary states. And yes, Britain makes sense as European Japan for all the usual reasons.

The Slavs would be the Mongol Analogue. On the periphery of civilization and always invading left and right while retaining their pagan religion until the late middle ages.


Maybe we can have a Tibet Analogue in Dacia, with its own idiosyncratic priesthood inspired by the Cult of Zalmoxis, and Theocratic rule.

Maybe for the East, We need more unity between India and China... maybe have India stay Buddhist, with Buddhism solidifying around a couple of pope like figures in Indosphere and Sinic World each. So the difference between India and China is more like Rome and Byzantium, made even greater by the fact that India is always invaded by people from beyond the Hindu Kush and relies on Chinese mercenaries to fend them off.

As for China's dissolution, we can have a very intense invasion of China Proper by Barbarians at the same time the Chinese are having dynastic crises, famine, etc. Maybe all due to meteors striking Central Asia or Something. They basically start outnumbering the dwindling Chinese in their many Kingdoms, and the only vestige of the former Chinese Empire is the Great Temple, home of the Great Buddhist Priest, who becomes a pope analogue.

The two problems here are making a homogenous Celtic Empire and making Buddhism have a Pope-like figure. How Plausible is this? Any more ideas?
 
What if the Germanic nations were China? And my thoughts were that maybe the Ottoman Empire or the Holy Land could be India, but a Roman India might work better. I don't know my ancient history all that well.

And I suppose there could be a powerful Buddhist high priest if he had a large army and declared himself the new incarnation of Buddha. It's not a very Buddhist idea, but it might work. Or, of course, there could have been a lot of controversies about what Buddhism really means and how it applies to real life, and everyone decided to have the Dalai Lama settle all the disputes.
 
The two problems here are making a homogenous Celtic Empire and making Buddhism have a Pope-like figure. How Plausible is this? Any more ideas?

I recall reading a TL on another site that had the Buddhist religion follow along lines of development similar to the early Christian Church.
 
So if would the equivalent of Hindiusm be the Religio Romana, or something developed from it?

If Britian is Japan then the equivalent of Shinto would be some form of Theodism/Asatru-Vanatru
 
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How about we go with the buddhist pope, but not in India. Let him end up in China. Let Indian leaders be Hindu.

The Chinese could fall apart after a dynasty falling and (somehow) staying apart. The Arabs could get bigger claims in europe and could be like china. Boleslaw might not have divided up his kingdom and a unified poland with a balkanized Germany next door will cause a poland wank. It could be like India. The scandanavians could be like the Mongol.

The Buddhist pope in China will try to get Japan and SE asia to 'crusade' against the Indians.

Sorry, im not that good at this.
 
The East had a India / China dualism whereas European culture rested solely on the Greco-Roman World. Although Rome = China is suggested often, I'd rather have them be India because of the heterogeneous nature of the ancient Mediterranean. The Roman Empire can fall apart sooner and basically be like Ashoka's India, known for the patronage of a culture / religion than lasting political rule. Or Maybe a more widespread Hellenic Empire that includes Rome and falls apart as usual, never to recover. What would the Roman equivalent of Buddhism be? Neoplatonism, maybe?

The Celtic World can be China. A unified Celtic empire around the same time as Rome that somehow keeps the Germans confined and becomes more of a trading partner to the various post-Roman states. We can have a Celtic Confucius that provides a philosophy similar to that of OTL China, while Neoplatonism makes inroads. There is no exclusive monotheism and more or less a philosophical system imposed upon existing polytheisms rather than a clean break.

The Germanic tribes can be like Manchus and Koreans, pushed and confined to Scandinavia and often at odds with the Celtic Empire but just as often its tributary states. And yes, Britain makes sense as European Japan for all the usual reasons.

The Slavs would be the Mongol Analogue. On the periphery of civilization and always invading left and right while retaining their pagan religion until the late middle ages.


Maybe we can have a Tibet Analogue in Dacia, with its own idiosyncratic priesthood inspired by the Cult of Zalmoxis, and Theocratic rule.

Maybe for the East, We need more unity between India and China... maybe have India stay Buddhist, with Buddhism solidifying around a couple of pope like figures in Indosphere and Sinic World each. So the difference between India and China is more like Rome and Byzantium, made even greater by the fact that India is always invaded by people from beyond the Hindu Kush and relies on Chinese mercenaries to fend them off.

As for China's dissolution, we can have a very intense invasion of China Proper by Barbarians at the same time the Chinese are having dynastic crises, famine, etc. Maybe all due to meteors striking Central Asia or Something. They basically start outnumbering the dwindling Chinese in their many Kingdoms, and the only vestige of the former Chinese Empire is the Great Temple, home of the Great Buddhist Priest, who becomes a pope analogue.

The two problems here are making a homogenous Celtic Empire and making Buddhism have a Pope-like figure. How Plausible is this? Any more ideas?

Maybe Asia is somehow Christianized and Europe isn't?
 
The East had a India / China dualism whereas European culture rested solely on the Greco-Roman World. Although Rome = China is suggested often, I'd rather have them be India because of the heterogeneous nature of the ancient Mediterranean. The Roman Empire can fall apart sooner and basically be like Ashoka's India, known for the patronage of a culture / religion than lasting political rule. Or Maybe a more widespread Hellenic Empire that includes Rome and falls apart as usual, never to recover. What would the Roman equivalent of Buddhism be? Neoplatonism, maybe?

Not so much. China and India had very little to do with each other directly.
The hellenic world/Persia meanwhile...Far more of a dualism.



Anyway. Too much going down the route of trying to make an exact analogue here rather than just developing them along the lines of the other.
 
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