Where could East Germanic languages surive? How long could it persist? What would be the nature of the speakers(minority, majority, religious, legal, diasporic, scholarly, rural, urban, sedentary, aristocratic, nomadic, rich, poor)?

How many East Germanic languages would be the maximum number? How many languages could be spinned off East Germanic?
 
The earliest safe way to keep Eastern Germanic (and especially Gothic language) would be as proposed above : to keep Goths out of Romania and have them form a strongly romanized but peripheral client ensemble of chiefdoms (eventually forming a cyclical chiefdom or an early state) bordering the Empire.

Depending on the situation in the late IVth/early Vth century, you could see Gothic managing to hold on on the Danubian basin (on either side) which were relatively poorly inhabited. A foedus being maintainable and maintained in Moesia, with a significant Gothic population would be as heavily romanized than IOTL, but could keep Gothic language alive for a long period of time in the region.
A good PoD would be Constantinople swallowing up Italy early on (it would require an earlier collapse of WRE, tough by years rather than decades) and making Ostrogotic foedus in Pannonia or with a closer resettlement than IOTL more strategically relevant for the Roman Empire, in a region that was significantly underpopulated.
In both case, while sustained Eastern Germanic language is possible, it would be in a way close to Old English with more linguistical bastardization with Romance and Greek.
Replace Goths with Herules, Gepids, Rugii in similar regions.

Apart from that, maybe Vandals could take the places of Alemani in former Upper Rhine/Danube limes, with the same caveat.
Anything too deep in Romania would end up as IOTL, meaning a quick disappearance of Eastern Germanic speeches use.
 
Assuming political history goes as in OTL, where could East Germanic languages exist?
Nowhere. Gothic and Vandalic kingdoms in western Romania were far too romanized institutionally and culturally to really hope see Eastern Germanic survives as anything more than symbolical use. IOTL, they weren't used commonly since the VIth century onward.
Crimean Gothic might have survived up to the Xth century, but as a limited isolate : I guess you could have some equivalent in Balkans for the same period.
 
Nowhere. Gothic and Vandalic kingdoms in western Romania were far too romanized institutionally and culturally to really hope see Eastern Germanic survives as anything more than symbolical use. IOTL, they weren't used commonly since the VIth century onward.
Do you think it is impossible or just unlikely? Your post below seem to indicate the latter.
Crimean Gothic might have survived up to the Xth century, but as a limited isolate : I guess you could have some equivalent in Balkans for the same period.
Why could not Crimean Gothic survive into the 21st century assuming similar to OTL political history?

How many East Germanic languages be present in the Balkans? Gepid? Would the East Germanic languages be in a similar position as Aromanian, Roma, or one of the settled languages?
 
Do you think it is impossible or just unlikely? Your post below seem to indicate the latter.
Impossible if the political history unfolds as IOTL. Crimean Gothic was in a really, really peripheral area. Spain, Gaul, Italy and Africa definitely weren't.

Why could not Crimean Gothic survive into the 21st century assuming similar to OTL political history?
Because we're talking of an isolate, neighbored and dominated by several other languages which were supported either trough chefely dominance at best, outright administration at worst. Even Cornish had a better chance.

How many East Germanic languages be present in the Balkans?
Eastern Germanic speeches weren't really distinguished : we're using Gothic and Vandalic out of convenience there, as they might have been based on their own proper dialectal differenciation. Truth is, differenciated Eastern Germanic languages would appear along political-cultural lines, rather than the contrary.

Would the East Germanic languages be in a similar position as Aromanian, Roma, or one of the settled languages?
At worst, along Aromanian equivalent ITTL. At the very best, pre-XIIth Albanian.
 
Impossible if the political history unfolds as IOTL.
Why is political history so important?
Crimean Gothic was in a really, really peripheral area.
Crimea was hub of many different migrations. The peninsula also changed hands multiple times. Was it really that peripheral?
Spain, Gaul, Italy and Africa definitely weren't.
What about Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey?
Because we're talking of an isolate, neighbored and dominated by several other languages which were supported either trough chefely dominance at best, outright administration at worst. Even Cornish had a better chance.
Why cannot Eastern Germanic be as succesfull as Roma?
Eastern Germanic speeches weren't really distinguished : we're using Gothic and Vandalic out of convenience there, as they might have been based on their own proper dialectal differenciation. Truth is, differenciated Eastern Germanic languages would appear along political-cultural lines, rather than the contrary.
Do we really have enough data to be certain of much related to Eastern Germanic languages? Or can be only make educated guesses?
At worst, along Aromanian equivalent ITTL. At the very best, pre-XIIth Albanian.
How would a Aromanian scenario plat out? What about a Albanian scenario?
 
Why is political history so important?
Because it sets where things are happening, and in which institutional frames, especially giving Barbarian identity was importantly set on political frameworks until the late Vth.

Crimea was hub of many different migrations. The peninsula also changed hands multiple times. Was it really that peripheral?
Peripheral to Romania, which is really important in the degree of linguistical and cultural romanisation of populations there.

What about Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey?
About Danubian regions.
As for Turkey, it was pretty importantly romanized too, at least in its western and southern areas, even if following hellenic structures doing so.

Why cannot Eastern Germanic be as succesfull as Roma?
Fewer numbers which were importantly made by provincial natives, heavy cultural and institutional romanisation right as Barbarians peoples formed along the limes which only increased as they entered Romania.

Do we really have enough data to be certain of much related to Eastern Germanic languages? Or can be only make educated guesses?
As for Gothic, we do have the Bible of Wulfila which is a really important source on documenting the sate of Late Antiquity Gothic language along the Commentaries on St John and some isolated sentences, names and words after the Vth century.
Language spoke by Vandals is much less known, limited to names and some sentences that are enough to propose it was more Eastern Germanic looking than Western Germanic looking.
We know almost nothing about Burgondian, and there's a fair possibility that it was a Western Germanic speech.

So there is enough sources to have more than educated guesses, but there is very few certainties outside Gothic (which doesn't mean there's a lot of these for Gothic)

How would a Aromanian scenario plat out?
Isolated villages and communities still practicing some god-forgotten speech until a polity strong enough to project itself arrives and trough sheer cultural gravity swallow them up more or less importantly.

What about a Albanian scenario?
There would be the possibility of a more unified survival, if on an isolated ground, on mountains and piedmonts, until the occasion for political autonomy and/or coastal and/or outer migrations kicks in.
 
Because it sets where things are happening, and in which institutional frames, especially giving Barbarian identity was importantly set on political frameworks until the late Vth.
What about the Crimean Goths of the medieval period? How were their identity compared to migration era Eastern Germanic hordes, hosts, tribes, states.
There would be the possibility of a more unified survival, if on an isolated ground, on mountains and piedmonts, until the occasion for political autonomy and/or coastal and/or outer migrations kicks in.
What would need to happen for a Albanian style East Germanic group?
 
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What about the Crimean Goths of the medieval period?
There's no real trace Gothic survived in Crimea past the Xth. Most of the arguments in this sense are extremely debatable.

How were their identity compared to migration era Eastern Germanic hordes, hosts, tribes, states.
It's hard to say giving their relative isolation : we do know that a Gothic identity remained in southern Crimea long enough to a part of it being named Gothia, but it was as well described as one within a mosaic of other local identities.

What would need to happen for a Albanian styke East Germanic group?
A foedus settled in Illyricum, stuck between a strong Italy and Byzantium (maybe an Italy that is part of Byzantium since the Vth century, and in drastic need of someone settling in the middle of Illyricum), which is not swallowed up by Romania in the VIth, is able to withdraw into Dinaric mountains (probably in order to secure coastal area) until it eventually re-emerges out of chiefdoms surrounded by Slavs in the medieval area as an autonomous polity and as a manpower poll to coastal and neighbouring regions that are relatively peripheral to the realm(s) cores.

I tend to find a Danubian survival along a surviving (if weakened) Romania less convoluted, even if this scenario is possible.
 
It's hard to say giving their relative isolation : we do know that a Gothic identity remained in southern Crimea long enough to a part of it being named Gothia, but it was as well described as one within a mosaic of other local identities.

(Just to hijack it a bit again): the primary sources were discussed on the board only a little earlier:

Tale of Igor's Campaign, De Rubruck, Galofontibus, Life of Antonius the Roman, Bosbecq and Crimean grave epigraphy.

Make of it what you will.
 
How about in OTL Switzerland, particularly in both Germanophone region and La Romandie (Savoyard region included).

But we need much earlier PoD though
 
(Just to hijack it a bit again): the primary sources were discussed on the board only a little earlier:
And while really interesting, a Gothic identity (one among many in the era, in modern Languedoc or Sweden) doesn't imply survival of Gothic language past the cave writings (which are from the Xth).

As for Bosbebq, that it really witnessed an Eastern Germanic speech is debatable at the very best. There's much more grounds for Western Germanic speeches from later settlers, giving the disrepencies.
 
How about in OTL Switzerland, particularly in both Germanophone region and La Romandie (Savoyard region included).
But we need much earlier PoD though
I could see it as a continuation from a Vandalic settlement in IOTL Late Ancient Alemania, so with a IIIrd or IVth century PoD, it would be fine enough.
 
And while really interesting, a Gothic identity (one among many in the era, in modern Languedoc or Sweden) doesn't imply survival of Gothic language past the cave writings (which are from the Xth).

As for Bosbebq, that it really witnessed an Eastern Germanic speech is debatable at the very best. There's much more grounds for Western Germanic speeches from later settlers, giving the disrepencies.

Yeah. I don't really have a position on this, simply providing the names of the (remarkably small) number of documents that say anything about Goths in Crimea. Most of them are one-liners too.
 
How about in OTL Switzerland, particularly in both Germanophone region and La Romandie (Savoyard region included).

But we need much earlier PoD though
A Eastern Germanic language that is close to Western Germanic languages might be greatly impacted or even assimilated by Western Germanic languages.
 
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Why do you use the term "Romania" to describe the Roman Empire/Roman World/Roman Sphere? Romania is most commonly used to describe Romania a nation-state in Europe. Romania usually refer to the Eastern Romance nation state of Romania and Eastern Romance languages.
 
Why do you use the term "Romania" to describe the Roman Empire/Roman World/Roman Sphere? Romania is most commonly used to describe Romania a nation-state in Europe. Romania usually refer to the Eastern Romance nation state of Romania and Eastern Romance languages.
How would you form a noun for Rome as a cultural region? Romia?
 
Why do you use the term "Romania" to describe the Roman Empire/Roman World/Roman Sphere? Romania is most commonly used to describe Romania a nation-state in Europe. Romania usually refer to the Eastern Romance nation state of Romania and Eastern Romance languages.
Because the latter is only a 20thC term at the insistence of said country. Before then Romania (and Rhomania) were perfectly acceptable and indeed apt descriptions for the Roman states/polities.

Edit: perhaps I should say late 20th early 21st as I was brought up using Rumania for the Balkan country and East Romania was for historians who disagreed with the term Byzantine.
 
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Why do you use the term "Romania" to describe the Roman Empire/Roman World/Roman Sphere? Romania is most commonly used to describe Romania a nation-state in Europe. Romania usually refer to the Eastern Romance nation state of Romania and Eastern Romance languages.
LSC is Francophone, where “Romania” refers to Roman civilization and not the Balkan country (which is “Roumanie” in French).
 
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