Early Irish,And Scotland Secession From Britain

Is It Possible,a revolutiion that results on eatly secession of ireland,and a scotland secession from britain,inspired by what USA Did? And what is the effects to the future?
 
Ireland, yes. Scotland, no. The latter benefited hugely from access to the Empire's markets and it wouldn't be in its economic interests.
 
Is It Possible,a revolutiion that results on eatly secession of ireland,and a scotland secession from britain,inspired by what USA Did? And what is the effects to the future?

Inspired by the USA? No, but you could do it earlier.

The most obvious opportunity comes with the civil war. Ireland and Scotland were both considerably more royalist, so a war that doesn't end with Cromwell curbstomping everyone could have Scotland and Ireland retaining the monarchy and going their own way. Obviously this would have tremendous benefits for Ireland as they wouldn't lose 40% of their population.

That said, you're probably still going to get the restoration when Cromwell dies.
 
Can''t think of a situation where an American style revolution would work in Scotland. One posibility for Scotland seceding is a succesful 15 or 45 Jacobite rising but that would just put a Stuart king on the Scottish throne.

Given the general incompetence of the Stuarts that would require a battalion of ASBs on their side
 
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One could lead to the other.

Say Hoch's Expedition to Ireland to support the United Irishmen, and a Irish Republic is successfully formed at the turn of the century.

With an example of a republic of Protestants and Catholics living side by side, led by an Enlightenment intellectual liberalizing Protestant elite (the United Irishmen and their successors), Scotland; as Romantic, Enlightenment-admiring, and liberal as many of its great thinkers were in the 18th and 19th century; could see it as an example to be followed.

Especially if Great Britain had taken the loss of Ireland and its probable housing of a French fleet badly and become a dictatorship under a Wellington or a Marlborough (as per Look to the West).

I think the nation that produced the Bank of England and the philosophy of Adam Smith could go on to form a successful economy, and with Ireland being a republic as well it wouldn't necessarily have to become a garrison state with all of its resources in the military to help deter English invasion.

If you really wanted to paint a broad theme with this sort of timeline, maybe instead of Napoleon, the French Republic sputters on until LaFayette or the Duke d'Orleans are given power by the Gardes Nationale and create an Enlightenment monarchy.
 
Well,if it goes that way,since the people of scotland have firm,maybe "Great" relations with the french dating from the crusader age.......There is a slight chance of "french agitates the scots to broke free from britain
 
When they sober up, they return to the UK as if nothing happened.

Heh, heh. Scots parliament celebrates hogmannay in grand style, passes a declaration of indepence by loud boisterous voice vote. New years day they wake up with massive hangovers, rescind the declaration, and are glad they were all too drunk to send the message off to london.
:):p
 
I doubt you could get Scotland properly independent any time between the last Jacobite rebellion and the end of the First World War.

The only independent Scotland you'll get is in the wake of a Stuart victory in either the 15 or the 45: the union was monstrously unpopular in 1715, though less so in 1745. A Stuart victory in either scenario would have restored the Scottish Parliament: it was pretty much in their manifesto.

After this? A successful French invasion possibly. But by the time you're into the later half of the 18th century, Scotland is starting to see the tangible benefits of being near the summit of an immensely profitable empire. Then it becomes more difficult.

What you could get is an autonomous Scotland with its own parliament - a suggestion that was mooted during the later half of the 19th century. I'm actually looking to research what such an assembly would have looked like. A 19th century Scottish Assembly would be an immensely interesting political beast.

As for Ireland: you can have an independent Ireland any time you want. Earlier is better, because then you have a real chance for a united Ireland with decent communal relations between Presbyterians and Catholics. But fundamentally, all the Irish need is a weakened, or distracted Britain, and they're off.
 
Heh, heh. Scots parliament celebrates hogmannay in grand style, passes a declaration of indepence by loud boisterous voice vote. New years day they wake up with massive hangovers, rescind the declaration, and are glad they were all too drunk to send the message off to london.
:):p

Precisely. The Scots, as I understand it, don't want to leave - being part of the UK is a desirable situation.

There's the Highlanders, but even that's being absorbed into the fact a Scot in the British Empire has a good chance of making himself filthy stinking rich.

As I Blame Communism noted in the past, there is a disproportionate number of Scots in various positions.

Ireland revolting is easy. Scotland needs a motive before we can even begin to discuss if its capable of success.
 
Ireland revolting is easy. Scotland needs a motive before we can even begin to discuss if its capable of success.

How about, through use of massive ASBs, a DVD (and stuff needed to play it) of Braveheart with Mel Gibson is sent to 1700's Scotland, and everyone in the country drops everything they are doing to kill English for no reason other than the movie:D
 
An imagined one. Some sort of movement that saw the Scots as a burden on the capital of England's empire.

Eh, I can see the argument from the time period; the poorer Scots got access to a colonial empire and the English market under the Act of Union. This was one reason it was opposed by some Englishmen OTL. Plus, they were stealing English jobs.

As the English saying went,

"Into our places, states, and beds they creep,"
They've sense to get, what we want sense to keep.
 
How about, through use of massive ASBs, a DVD (and stuff needed to play it) of Braveheart with Mel Gibson is sent to 1700's Scotland, and everyone in the country drops everything they are doing to kill English for no reason other than the movie:D

That makes about as much sense as any other explanation.

Certainly, being inspired to revolt because of the American Revolution makes no sense at all - the conditions are completely different, maybe even opposite.
 
That makes about as much sense as any other explanation.

Certainly, being inspired to revolt because of the American Revolution makes no sense at all - the conditions are completely different, maybe even opposite.

For Scotland maybe, but Ireland?
 
For Scotland maybe, but Ireland?

You'll note that my comments on it making no sense for there to be a revolt have been about Scotland and only Scotland, not Ireland.

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Ireland revolting is easy. Scotland needs a motive before we can even begin to discuss if its capable of success.
Assuming, that is, that you've read my posts in this thread and not just decided to look for some way to start an argument.
 
Scotland was a source of a lot of Britain's liberal ideals, and as such I can imagine the desire for an independent Scotland for the purpose of gaining universal male suffrage. Set back the causes of Radicals and Chartists and the Birmingham Political Union in England, and you might see increased desire for independence in Scotland.
 
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