Earliest rise of the United States of America?

Does the U.S. have to rise, or can the others fall?

Could the Napoleonci Wars get even bloodier? Like say Napoleon wins at Trafalgar, but then his invasion of Britain is crushed? Undaunted, he still goes after Spain and Russia, both defeat him (Russia witht heh e4lp of General Winter) and France dissolves into Civil War after his death in 1821 becuase he never fthered a healthy heir and the pwoers all start fighting each other. (The powers were ready to fight after 1814 as it was, till the Hundred Days.) A defeated, exhausted Britain can't enforce a Congress of Vienna.

the U.S. would likelys till have its civil war, but might be ready to jump right in in the 1870s - I don't know in this scenario if it can be strong enough in the 1830s and 1840s, though. It would, however, be an interesting TL.
 
Not until the Issues of the ACW were addressed ( Slavery, Free Soil vs Slave Power in the Terr., Sectionalism, ect. ect.) were resolved with or without blood shed ( not likely ). The USA we know today was born in the Ashes of ACW, and it would never reach it's potential With such Destructive Rifts...No Nation Could, Look at most any sub-Saharan African Nation-State Or the Balkans to see the likely result...:(
 
Does the U.S. have to rise, or can the others fall?

Could the Napoleonci Wars get even bloodier? Like say Napoleon wins at Trafalgar, but then his invasion of Britain is crushed? Undaunted, he still goes after Spain and Russia, both defeat him (Russia witht heh e4lp of General Winter) and France dissolves into Civil War after his death in 1821 becuase he never fthered a healthy heir and the pwoers all start fighting each other. (The powers were ready to fight after 1814 as it was, till the Hundred Days.) A defeated, exhausted Britain can't enforce a Congress of Vienna.

the U.S. would likelys till have its civil war, but might be ready to jump right in in the 1870s - I don't know in this scenario if it can be strong enough in the 1830s and 1840s, though. It would, however, be an interesting TL.

That works I guess. I just wanted to know at what point the US surpassed Europe and should have just asked that. Like could the US archive its post 1945 status in 1870 to 1880. I always assumed that isolationism held it back till at least after the first world war.
 
Isolationism certainly didn't help, but the US only really became a major great power in the late 19th century anyway - although as of 1860, its industrial power is only a bit behind France.

Anything like its post-1945 status being achieved pre-1900 is really far fetched, even if we have Europe weaker than OTL mid-19th century.
 
Isolationism certainly didn't help, but the US only really became a major great power in the late 19th century anyway - although as of 1860, its industrial power is only a bit behind France.

Anything like its post-1945 status being achieved pre-1900 is really far fetched, even if we have Europe weaker than OTL mid-19th century.

I that case at what point in otl do you think the US could defeat the British Empire in a conflict? I know it's abs but it seems to be related.
 
I that case at what point in otl do you think the US could defeat the British Empire in a conflict? I know it's abs but it seems to be related.

Defeat in what regard? "The US conquers Canada and annexes it." is a lot harder than the US defeating a British invasion from Canada aiming at taking the midwest.
 
Defeat in what regard? "The US conquers Canada and annexes it." is a lot harder than the US defeating a British invasion from Canada aiming at taking the midwest.

True that. I should have been less vague. What about the earliest point in OTL that the US could build and maintain the largest navy in the world.
 
True that. I should have been less vague. What about the earliest point in OTL that the US could build and maintain the largest navy in the world.

Probably around the time of WWI - as in, that decade. Assuming Britain is in a position roughly like OTL.

The odds of the US doing so aren't very good, however.
 
Probably around the time of WWI - as in, that decade. Assuming Britain is in a position roughly like OTL.

The odds of the US doing so aren't very good, however.

I see so like 30 years prior then. I'm sorry for all the questions I just always had this perception that one year a switch was flipped and bam America dominant. I assumed that isolationism delayed the flipping and wanted to know when said switch first appeared. If this makes no sense I'm very tired but can't sleep.
 
I see so like 30 years prior then. I'm sorry for all the questions I just always had this perception that one year a switch was flipped and bam America dominant. I assumed that isolationism delayed the flipping and wanted to know when said switch first appeared. If this makes no sense I'm very tired but can't sleep.

It wasn't so much a "Bam, suddenly America!" as the US growing in power increasingly quickly in the late 19th century and onward, and on top of that WWI and WWII hitting the other powers very hard.

I think the 1910s are the earliest the US is in a position where it could seriously outbuild Britain, but it's not absolutely clear - and of course, Britain's will to be #1 is probably greater.
 
Does the U.S. have to rise, or can the others fall?

Could the Napoleonci Wars get even bloodier? Like say Napoleon wins at Trafalgar, but then his invasion of Britain is crushed? Undaunted, he still goes after Spain and Russia, both defeat him (Russia witht heh e4lp of General Winter) and France dissolves into Civil War after his death in 1821 becuase he never fthered a healthy heir and the pwoers all start fighting each other. (The powers were ready to fight after 1814 as it was, till the Hundred Days.) A defeated, exhausted Britain can't enforce a Congress of Vienna.

the U.S. would likelys till have its civil war, but might be ready to jump right in in the 1870s - I don't know in this scenario if it can be strong enough in the 1830s and 1840s, though. It would, however, be an interesting TL.

1. Your PoDs might butterfly away his death. His death was in part caused by the poor living conditions on St. Helena.
2. Napoleon II wasn't really unhealthy as far as I remember. He got tuberculosis, which could easily be butterflied away ITTL.
 
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