Earliest post-1683 Ottoman Extinction?

The Title says it all. What's the earliest (once they've gotten going) that the Ottoman Empire can be wiped off the map?

Even if you bring the Russians into it, I'd say 1820 is too early. But 1854, maybe? Keep the Allies out however, and *handwave* have the Russians get all the way to Tsargrad?
 

Keenir

Banned
The Title says it all. What's the earliest (once they've gotten going) that the Ottoman Empire can be wiped off the map?

Even if you bring the Russians into it, I'd say 1820 is too early. But 1854, maybe? Keep the Allies out however, and *handwave* have the Russians get all the way to Tsargrad?

maybe not 1820...earlier in that century, though - have the Russians and Napoleon invade while the Janissaries are running rampant through Constantinople killing the royals.
 
The Title says it all. What's the earliest (once they've gotten going) that the Ottoman Empire can be wiped off the map?

Even if you bring the Russians into it, I'd say 1820 is too early. But 1854, maybe? Keep the Allies out however, and *handwave* have the Russians get all the way to Tsargrad?

There is a window of opportunity around the turn of the 19th c. Say between 1800 to the end of the Napoleonic wars, when the empire was at its weakest and had not been re-centralized. After that it's pretty hard. The Russians weren't doing all that well mano-a-mano against the Ottomans in 1853, and I don't think they had the resources to get to Constantinople, nor would anyone have let them.

After the early window, it might be possible in the mid to late 1890s, but probably not until 1904, as the geopolitical situation pushed Britain, France, and Russia together. With a lesser man on the throne, the empire could have lost its independence after the Treaty of Berlin in 1878 to either Russia or Britain and probably been dismembered by granting chunks of it autonomy.
 
The Title says it all. What's the earliest (once they've gotten going) that the Ottoman Empire can be wiped off the map?

Even if you bring the Russians into it, I'd say 1820 is too early. But 1854, maybe? Keep the Allies out however, and *handwave* have the Russians get all the way to Tsargrad?

Zyzzyva

I suspect you would consider it a check but what about a change of dynasty? With a different ruling family its technically no longer the Ottoman empire.

Other than that only think that comes to mind much earlier would be somewhere where somehow Napoleon delivers the coup-de-grac although how that occurs so far from France and without British opposition. I don't think any other power earlier has the combination of potential power and desire to defeat it totally. [Even then, for a meglomanic like Boney, that might be going far].

Furthermore what do you consider the end of the empire? Possibly could see some major European power with a good slice of luck heavily defeating the Ottomans and possibly taking Constantinople but that might not end the empire. You could have a rump state hanging on in Anatolia or even Syria say for a while.

Steve
 
There is a window of opportunity around the turn of the 19th c. Say between 1800 to the end of the Napoleonic wars, when the empire was at its weakest and had not been re-centralized. After that it's pretty hard. The Russians weren't doing all that well mano-a-mano against the Ottomans in 1853, and I don't think they had the resources to get to Constantinople, nor would anyone have let them.

After the early window, it might be possible in the mid to late 1890s, but probably not until 1904, as the geopolitical situation pushed Britain, France, and Russia together. With a lesser man on the throne, the empire could have lost its independence after the Treaty of Berlin in 1878 to either Russia or Britain and probably been dismembered by granting chunks of it autonomy.
I bow to your superior Knowledge (Ottoman)... although, if the empire never decentralizes, presumably it could go down in the first half of the 19th C?

And @stevep: I mean, at least as bad as the actual end in 1921: the Ottoman Empire no longer exists, and moreover any Turkish successor state is a distinctly second-rank power.
 
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